Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston... - Page 9 - SailNet Community
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post #81 of 249 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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Donna.. have they successfully prosecuted/collected/convicted on many such incidents? Any idea of how many?

There was an incident in California recently but I don't believe they ever identified the culprit?
I can't tell you that for certain. I do know that they have sophisticated enough equipment that they can determine where the call originates. More than a few of the cases I heard of where children.

The times I've been involved in conversations down at Sector DE Bay, I don't recall anyone ever asking the follow-up questions. I think we were more interested in how they located them.

Maybe someone else can answer but in the meantime, I will try to find out.

Donna


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post #82 of 249 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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Yes. The USCG won't "decide" if a rescue is warranted. That's your job as a skipper. If you call, they come. God bless 'em for that.
Although thete are cases when the CG compelled a "rescue" such as S/V Satori in Oct '91.

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post #83 of 249 Old 06-11-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

I was thinking of that same incident. If I recall correctly from my reading of Junger's "The Perfect Storm", however, his crew wanted off the boat and had been communicating with the USCG, while the captain wanted to stay with the boat (a Westsail 32?). The Coast Guard refused a partial evacuation and ordered him off the boat, too. The boat was doing fine, experiencing the normal scary stuff that happens in a storm (knockdowns, water above the floorboards, no engine, no electrical power), but his crew were pissing in their panties.

The lesson: don't let your crew start talking to the USCG or get anywhere near your EPIRB or PLB, if there is no reason to abandon the vessel. Or prepare your crew for those eventualities: we will lose electrical power, we will get knocked down, there will be water in the boat, the engine won't work anymore, etc. Too many people are psychologically and emotionally unprepared for these events and think the boat will sink next, they panic and endanger themselves, when in the vast majority of cases, the boat is found floating intact several months later, waterlogged with shredded sails. The sailboat is tougher than the people are.

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post #84 of 249 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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I was thinking of that same incident. If I recall correctly from my reading of Junger's "The Perfect Storm", however, his crew wanted off the boat and had been communicating with the USCG, while the captain wanted to stay with the boat (a Westsail 32?). The Coast Guard refused a partial evacuation and ordered him off the boat, too. The boat was doing fine, experiencing the normal scary stuff that happens in a storm (water above the floorboards, no engine, no electrical power), but his crew were pissing in their panties.

The lesson: don't let your crew start talking to the USCG or get anywhere near your EPIRB or PLB, if there is no reason to abandon the vessel.
I don't know the legalities involved, but from my conversations with CG personnel, once they have been called and arrive on-scene, and begin rescue, they are in command of the situation...not you. This is for very good reason in my opinion.

In the case of Satori, the CG didn't "compel" the Mayday. They just ordered everyone off the boat because in their judgement it was the safest thing to do. They have the right to make the call at that point in time. You've given it to them.

James - do you know of any case law on this kind of thing that clarifies it more?
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post #85 of 249 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

The news story does not indicate that they even issued a mayday. It says they "contacted" the CG. The decision by a captain to call a mayday seems like the red line.

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post #86 of 249 Old 06-11-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

Once you get out in international waters, you are beyond my knowledge base...
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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They were.
So my apology isn't enough....no need to pile on.


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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

I can't comment if the Captain should have called for rescue. I wasn't there.

I do believe that any captain or crew getting on a strange boat, should have in his sea bag, a GPS, a VHF handheld with weather radio, flashlights, batteries, emergency food and water, first aid kit, and a few tools and even a quart of two of motor oil. Sail needles, and thread would be smart also. I consider that my ditch bag also, and always have it where I can see it.
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post #89 of 249 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
I was thinking of that same incident. If I recall correctly from my reading of Junger's "The Perfect Storm", however, his crew wanted off the boat and had been communicating with the USCG, while the captain wanted to stay with the boat (a Westsail 32?). The Coast Guard refused a partial evacuation and ordered him off the boat, too. The boat was doing fine, experiencing the normal scary stuff that happens in a storm (knockdowns, water above the floorboards, no engine, no electrical power), but his crew were pissing in their panties.

The lesson: don't let your crew start talking to the USCG or get anywhere near your EPIRB or PLB, if there is no reason to abandon the vessel. Or prepare your crew for those eventualities: we will lose electrical power, we will get knocked down, there will be water in the boat, the engine won't work anymore, etc. Too many people are psychologically and emotionally unprepared for these events and think the boat will sink next, they panic and endanger themselves, when in the vast majority of cases, the boat is found floating intact several months later, waterlogged with shredded sails. The sailboat is tougher than the people are.
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Too many people are psychologically and emotionally unprepared for these events and think the boat will sink next, they panic and endanger themselves, when in the vast majority of cases, the boat is found floating intact several months later, waterlogged with shredded sails.
I do not agree. So could you prove this? How do you endanger yourself when calling the CG for help? They mitigate the danger.

If everyone wants off the boat, but the Captain doesn't the others are forced to stay? This is too broad a sweeping statement I think.

How do you prepare psychologically and emotionally for 30 ft. waves, loss of all power, ripped sails, and constant knockdowns?

I have personal experience in this. In my early 20s I signed on twice to help bring two different boats across the Atlantic from Falmouth England to the US. Both boats were blue water cruisers over 42 ft in length with crew of 5.
The first delivery was uneventful, the second was terrifying. 1200 west of Falmouth we got into a period of 36 hours of Force 6/7 with waves 20-30 ft.
Battered the boat and crew. We hove to for two of the days. Many things broke on the well designed boat, including all the electrics. We all were sick.
At the time there was no way to abandon as this was 30 years ago. No EPIRB, no Sat phone. SSB knocked out. I though I was prepared as well as I could be, but once in the situation it was overwhelming. I did think as did the rest of us we were going to not make it. Had their been an option I think we would have taken it.

So if 4 of us wanted to take that option, and it is available, and the Captain didn't, does he have the right to prevent us from taking it. ( Don't get into the legalities of the Captain being in charge, I understand them). Just because abandoned ships are found after rescues doesn't mean the p[people who abandoned them wouldn't have been badly injured or killed.

Suppose the Bounty crew decided they wanted to get off the ship and told the Captain that. Are you saying they are signing onto a death sentence if conditions change and they have no say in the matter. I can only imagine the SN outrage if people found out they wanted off earlier and that the Captain said no.

Its fine to comment on that you shouldn't go in the first place, and we will differ in what's safe to have and what not in terms of equipment and crew, but you cant plan, practice for every condition or emergency you will face. If you think you can you are deluding yourself. Mother nature has its own agenda you can practice for. Machinery breaks. Not sure I understand what you are saying here, but I hope people don't follow this advice if they get in a situation in which they are overmatched, its bad advice. Call for help

So if the criteria is the ship can survive or as you stated
Quote:
The sailboat is tougher than the people are
how does this scenario work out.

You decide to circumnavigate the Delmarv singlehanded. As you head north along the Delaware coast, sleep deprived, muddling you decisions as well as your motor activities as you've been awake 20 hours , a T storm blows up. As you attempt to reef or bring down the sails the boat is struck by a wave and you fall breaking both your legs and arm in three places. Excruciating pain. You cant perform even the simplest of tasks. 20 miles offshore. You are in no threat of dying. The T storm passes and its calm The wave has knocked out your communications except for the EPIRB or PLB.

I wouldn't go alone in the first place as that's an irresponsible risk just because situations like this can happen easily but that's another issue to be argued.

Do you call for help? I would. If my crew mate ( because I wouldn't be stupid enough to be alone) needed medical assistance, even though it wasn't immediate life threatening, Id call for help.

BTW if they remove you off the boat your boat will float ashore surviving the accident.


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Re: Coast Guard rescues 4 "sailors" off Charleston...

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I can't tell you that for certain. I do know that they have sophisticated enough equipment that they can determine where the call originates. More than a few of the cases I heard of where children.

The times I've been involved in conversations down at Sector DE Bay, I don't recall anyone ever asking the follow-up questions. I think we were more interested in how they located them.

Maybe someone else can answer but in the meantime, I will try to find out.

On our trip to Long Island last year as we made our way up the coast there was a PAN PAN from a vessel supposedly sinking off of New York Bay came over channel 16. The CG searched for two days and later determined it was a fake. It even made the National News.

Cant they in this day and age get an exact fix on where the signal at least originates or originated from? Do you know of any cases recently where they prosecuted offenders of this?


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