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Do you wear a life jacket?

29K views 214 replies 92 participants last post by  Brewgyver 
#1 ·
I was thinking about getting a life jacket and I wondered how many people wear them and when. Please discuss other safety devices you find essential.

I have never worn a life jacket sailing but with the new(to me at least) auto inflatable kinds I'm interested. I'm sure most of you have one. Do you like it?

Do you wear your pfd at all times or only in rough conditions. Do you tether yourself to the boat?

Keep in mind I have never been more than 10-20 miles from land so alot of you will have more experience than I. I'm also now sailing in a cold place and I single hand so I could see great value in a confortable inflatable with tether. If I fell off on rough water I could die. Could. Depends on what the boat decided to do and other factors.
 
#148 ·
To each their own...

but no freaking way am I wearing a PFD on the docks...if I have a tendency to fall of the dock (sober), I will stop boating all together! If I can't walk down a dock without being concerned about drowning I have no business being on a boat in the first place.

Of course, I have a motorcycle too...many would not find that a very safe form of travel but I am willing to take the risk with a cautious attitude ;)
 
#161 ·
I recently read the book "Suddenly Overboard!" by Lochhass. Great read. Early in the book the author provides some statistics derived from available accident data. While hard to verify and/or assess context without the original data, the statistics seem to support PFD use. Someone during the thread asked about data on the subject so I'm not trying to convince anyone. A few key statistics:

83% of fatalities involving sailboats resulted from drowning

In 89% of sailing fatalities from drowning the victim did not have a PFD

50% of sailing fatalities occurred while actually sailing

40% of sailing fatalities occurred with the boat upright and nearby

Josh
 
#162 ·
I recently read the book "Suddenly Overboard!" by Lochhass. Great read. Early in the book the author provides some statistics derived from available accident data. While hard to verify and/or assess context without the original data, the statistics seem to support PFD use. Someone during the thread asked about data on the subject so I'm not trying to convince anyone. A few key statistics:

83% of fatalities involving sailboats resulted from drowning

In 89% of sailing fatalities from drowning the victim did not have a PFD

50% of sailing fatalities occurred while actually sailing

40% of sailing fatalities occurred with the boat upright and nearby

Josh
Nice Josh! Yes, data is the key. Probably need to verify it but it is within 10% of what I have heard before. I have gotten out of the habit of being more data oriented.

A friend of mine at my last gig had a great tag line
"In God I trust, all others bring data please"
 
#163 ·
NOPE not ever. I do wear a harness when out of the cockpit in rough conditions.

I have considered wearing an inflateable with a PLB strapped to it and probably should do so in very rough conditions.

The sea temp where I sail is in the 80sf and I am a reasonably strong swimmer.

BTW Have you ever tried to swim in a lifejacket?
 
#166 ·
Or they were already dead when they hit the water, or they were caught under the boat.

We are talking percentages here, but recalling the last stats I saw regarding boating accidients in the US, there was something like a dozen sailing related fatalities (that particular year). That's on par with the number of folks who keel over each year from eating raw oysters. Statistically, it appears to me that sailing is about as safe as staying home and watching TV.

I'm not advocating a no-PFD policy. If you want to wear it, wear it. Just don't force me to wear one when I deem conditions safe enough not to. I promise not to criticise your decision if you promise not criticise mine. Next thing you know, we'll have granny-ninnies mandating we wear kevlar helmets full time just in case a meteorite decided to brain us.

Sorry...I'm starting to get on a rant. Quick, get the rum!
 
#169 ·
#171 ·
Yes , I wore my old Canadian tire top of the line PFD faithfully, then I got one of the new mustang inflatables, the only difference I see other than comfort is that it requires me to pull a cord to activate and fill it with air, what if I'm injured going overboard , my old one dosent require any action if I'm disoriented. It's comfort verses safty with the inflatable one I bought, but even if it were self inflating there is still a possibility of failure with the inflatables that does not exist with a PFD.
 
#172 ·
Thirty years ago I had a LoneStar-13 dinghy and hardly ever work a life jacket and often had it tucked in the cubby. Last summer I sailed a 12 foot Paceship and wore it all the time. The boat didn't seem as stable or i was not as comfortable and for the first time I capsized in the middle of the lake. The guy with me didn't have his on, but fortunately it was near by.. I say fortunately because even though the boat had positive flotation, when it filled with water we couldn't bail it out.

I think I will wear a jacket all the time now.. To me it is like a seat belt, I might only be in one accident that I needed it... I just can't predict when that will be. On a boat, you never know if the time you go in the water if you are going to crack your head on the way over...

Ironically when I am in a motor boat I don't think of wearing them, of course if there was a lot of heeling I might change my mind.

I ride in a ferry several times a year... I don't wear one then.... but I ALWAYS look for where the life jackets are stored. I would do the same on a cruise ship
 
#173 ·
I think you're supposed to attach your harness in such a way that you don't exit the boat ever.

I sail in the Puget Sound, and as has been mentioned over and over, its super cold year-round. My limbs would stop being useful to me in about 10 to 15 minutes in that water, so I wear a mustang inflatable at all times on deck.

In Caribbean waters I'm less concerned.

However, I always always always bring the type IV throwable into the cockpit and ready to throw at a moment's notice. If someone goes in without a PFD, I want them to have something to grab within seconds.
 
#175 ·
I think you're supposed to attach your harness in such a way that you don't exit the boat ever.

I sail in the Puget Sound, and as has been mentioned over and over, its super cold year-round. My limbs would stop being useful to me in about 10 to 15 minutes in that water, so I wear a mustang inflatable at all times on deck.

In Caribbean waters I'm less concerned.

However, I always always always bring the type IV throwable into the cockpit and ready to throw at a moment's notice. If someone goes in without a PFD, I want them to have something to grab within seconds.
I sail in warmer waters on the East Coast and to and from Bermuda. My big problem is getting from the bottom of the companionway ladder to the deck, and then to behind the helm quickly yet securely. My personal rule is that any task requiring two hands presents at least an option, and often an obligation, to hook on with a safety harness with its "third hand," the tether. Two-handed jobs include: climbing up a ladder, stepping out of a companionway, making your way aft in a cockpit that may be crowded with lines or shipmates' legs, sliding around a large-diameter steering wheel, and then taking the helm.

This short exercise may seem easy on paper but it can be unsteady, especially if you have to stand upright. Here's where the safety harness (with PFD), tether, and jackline come into play. The backup is the cushion or Lifesling tossed to the swimmer by an alert shipmate.
 
#176 ·
Well the quote
The power of the wave ripped 55 year old Blackman overboard, even though he was attached to the yacht by his safety harness. He was not seen again.
Does not really make sense. I could see being injured, and even drowned if a huge wave hit you while tethered. Unless the tether actually failed, or the attachment point failed. It does not really go into detail, my guess would be that he had to reach something that was out of reach of the tether when trying to get the downed mizzen mast off the boat and disconnected the tether. A real shame.
 
#181 ·
Do we suppose that the force of the wave snapped the tether? That would mean the force of the water on his body was 2000-4000 pounds, equivalent to strapping a 150 hp engine to his butt and blasting him through the water at ridiculous speed. Improbable. The force on his body was probably more in line with a serious wave break, perhaps 500-1000 pounds.

Do we suppose that the impact of his body against the anchor point, without any stretch in the tether, contributed a major part of the force? More probable. Flying across the deck at 8-10 knots could account for all the force.

Sail Delmarva: Dynamic Tethers

A combination? Certainly. However, it seems quite probably that tethers with a little give in them could prevent this sort of breakage. Making them even stronger probably won't help; if the forces on the body are more than 5000 pounds the impact would be fatal.
 
#182 ·
Do we suppose that the force of the wave snapped the tether? That would mean the force of the water on his body was 2000-4000 pounds, equivalent to strapping a 150 hp engine to his butt and blasting him through the water at ridiculous speed. Improbable. The force on his body was probably more in line with a serious wave break, perhaps 500-1000 pounds.
...
where do you get these figures from?
a cubic meter of water weighs already 1 metric ton, if it comes rushing at you at a certain speed, the force on your body should be higher than the mere ~250-500 kg you mentioned... even if not all of the force is transferred onto your body since water is a fluid and "sloshes" around you...
tethers usually have a breaking load of 20000 N which equals to roughly ~2000 kg/m2...
the carabiners must have according to EU regulations at least 22000 N of breaking strength if they are meant to be used for alpine climbing and there are no others on the market... if they do not comply with this regulation, they have to be marked with "not for climbing" - you won't take one of those to tether you to a boat with... ;)

but you are right - if you get thrown around, the initial impact force on the tethers could easily be well above those breaking loads and a certain stretch in them would make them a lot safer...
 
#185 ·
this is my lifestyle, not my avocation. i have yet to fall into water...and i have been sailing almost 60 years.
no, i do not wear a life jacket on board.
iff it gets stinky on me out in the ocean i have the option of so doing. but normally i donot wear one.

oh yeah..i am essentially on board 24/7/365. my boat is my HOME. been living on board since 1990.
do you wear life jackets when you use the bathtub in your homes..........
 
#191 ·
do you wear life jackets when you use the bathtub in your homes..........
Nope, I don't. Then again, I'm reasonably sure that my bathroom at home has little chance of sinking in the ocean while I'm in the shower.

When on board and out of the slip, we wear pfds -- inflatable for my wife and me, vests for everyone else. (inflatables can be expensive!) :)
 
#186 ·
I am with Zeehag on this, long term liveaboard, never wear a lifejacket and only rarely feel the need to use a harness.

However I might wear one of these horse collar inflatable with a PLB as if I go over when I am singlehanded there is a chance of rescue if I can activate the PLB and stay afloat. Mind you the rescue services where I cruise often do not have money to fuel their boats..
 
#188 · (Edited)
Well... The impact energy calculates 1/2.m.v^2... (m is the mass, v is velocity)
That means that a cubic meter of water traveling at 2 m/sec (7.2 km/h) results roughly in 2000J or 2000 kg.m^2/sec^2 of kinetic energy which gets transferred fully onto a solid, immobile object...
A sailor standing on the foredeck is now not immobile, which results in the object of say 80 kg of mass getting accelerated to the speed of the wave because the mass of the man is rather small compared to the mass of the water...
That in result means he will be pushed into the tethers by 2100 J or 2100 kg.m^2/sec^2 plus additional pressure from the water still pushing the sailor...
If the tether now has no stretch, all of that energy is transferred via the harness to the sailor in an instant... If the man is stopped in a tenth of a second the force on the harness and therefore the sailor equals to something of 21 kg.m^2. Now divide this with the area of the harness in m^2 and you should get the actual pressure on your body from the harness in kg...

I hope i did not make any mistakes here... ;)
I think you have been right, the forces are really not that high as i initially thought...
 
#192 · (Edited)
I'm with you on the first part. Any mistakes were in the guessing about the scenario, which is all we can do. Since the impact part has been studied to death by the UIAA (climbing gear regulatory authority), I think it is simpler to detour to fall test data.

2000 jules is about equivalent to a UIAA test fall on a standard length tether (1.8 * 2 M * 50 kg * 9.8 = 1764 Jules. It is well known experimentally that 1" webbing cannot withstand that (only about 1100 joules for 2 meters of webbing), that 8 mm climbing rope can withstand that once, and that 10 mm climbing rope can withstand that ~ 10 falls, including a moderately sharp edge.

The impact force (experimental determined) if using a rigid object will exceed 4000 pounds with webbing and will be 1200-1600 pounds with climbing ropes. A harness and human body (which will deform a few inches) will reduce the impact about 100-500 pounds, depending on the example.

Since sometimes the harness fails, this further supports that the forces are very high. The military has found injuries become common at about 10 Gs in a full body harness; sailors have much less harness and more force.

-----------

Previously I had suggested that a Screamer (Yates) would be a good candidate for force reduction, but I withdraw that idea. The problem is that a Screamer is single-use and that lost MOBs were often during rollovers with repeated high impacts. An elastic tether would be more rugged in actual use. Screamers are fine for industry where only a single fall is contemplated; after that the guy kisses the ground, goes home and kisses the wife, and takes the rest of the week off.
 
#189 ·
Why not use rock climbing ropes for tethers? They have give. Because they're not flat and you'll slip?

I hate when people give that crap how you have to wear one because it's irresponsible to you mom or wife or whatever. They are a good idea in a lot of situations for sure but it seems to me for those times you have to wear one, cold water being the number one thing I'm reading, you'd be better off wearing a wetsuit. It provides floatation and keeps you warm. I find it irresponsible that anyone that feels that have a significant chance of going overboard and the water is cold would not wear a wetsuit.
 
#193 ·
pdqaltair - i made some mistakes... ;)
J is not only kg.m²/sec² but also N.m and if we calculate now the force of a "fall" with 2100 J which is stopped within 10 cm you get 21000 N of impact force and that is not a small number...
and it is quite in accordance with this graph were the force is shown in relation to a "sturzfaktor" which is basically the height of the fall divided by the length of a rope - in our case this factor would be around 1 but the speed would be less than that of a free fall with 9.81 m/sec² acceleration:
 
#194 ·
If there were only such a thing as dynamic webbing. I looked briefly at some products sold as recovery straps and such, but they didn't have the stretch characteristics of dynamic rope. Rope is problematic because if you step on it it can roll. I'm happy enough using 8mm rope for my tethers, since it is too small to create much of a roll hazard and I'm not sailing the southern ocean. It is still tougher than webbing (can absorb ~ 50% more energy) and much easier on the ribs.

Perhaps dynamic rope for the helm work station only would make sense. It always seems to be the helmsman that breaks the tether (guys on the jackline have the jackline for energy absorption--they only need to worry about getting stuffed under the bow wave!).
 
#195 ·
Yes, I wear an inflatable life jacket and tether when I sail alone, and, with crew, when conditions are anything less than calm. I know, if I go overboard, getting back on the boat will be a challenge and hypothermia could set in before I do, but it would give me a chance at survival, whereas watching the boat sail away will not.
 
#196 ·
I just found these pictures from my neighbor's driveway after the last hurricane.

I wonder how much force was exerted on that piece of rock and concrete.
Wonder how much a tether would have helped to keep it in place.



 
#208 ·
Please....

Given that it was already racked, little force was required. If the analogy was valid all surfers would be dead. You know this.
 
#197 ·
I believe we are all in agreement. I single hand 90% of the time in the Chesapeake bay. I wear it 90% of the time. I also trail a 100ft polypropylene line behind boat w/ a bowline tied off at end. Just in case I do fall off I can grab hold of line and hopefully drag myself back to boat. I have not tried that yet. You also must make sure you can climb back on boat if you do fall off. I DO NOT have a swim platform. I have a stowable ladder tied off a stantion that I can release and climb back on the boat. I also have a portable VHF radio tucked into my PFD on challenging days. . I do not have roller furling and when I go up front to pull down jib I feel safer w/ vest. Safe sailing!!
 
#198 ·
i went overboard once... the autopilot decided to tack, when i was still lying in the main on a close haul having a nice snooze there... ;) :rolleyes:

nevertheless - we also had some sort of line towing just in case, and i can tell from my own experience that you just cannot imagine how bloody fast this line comes rushing past you...
even at only 5 kts, it is frightening when you up to your nose in water.
you must be really very, very desperate to try and grab this line especially if you have no gloves on.
even if you manage to get hold of your bowline by slinging an arm through, the chance of a dislocated shoulder or even worse an injury is very high!

and then comes the really tricky bit:
just imagine - your probably injured and at 5 kts, the speed will drag you under water and i doubt very much, that you would be able to drag yourself back to the boat. the resistance the water gives you is something you have to figure yourself once... ;)

btw:
when i eventually was back on board, we immediately undid that line.
 
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