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  #41  
Old 06-28-2013
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Re: Am I an 'operator' at anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
The root answer is that increasingly most municipalities consider citizens nothing more than an economic 'prey species'.
That is increasingly the case in New Jersey. I see a greater police presence on my hour drive to the marina than I did when I worked in a "police state" in Eastern Europe in the 80's.

How pervasive is the overly aggressive attitude among police here?

Last summer we had to take our dinghy to a NJ State Police station. To register a dink in Jersey the state cops have to run the numbers run to confirm it's not stolen. We were both shocked and commented on the fact that the officer was normal, even friendly.

But when walking out we encountered a huge trooper, swaggering out in military regalia heading for his boat. He made a point of walking in front of us, wouldn't acknowledge our presence and gave off a significant cop attitude. He is now the norm. We wondered how the first guy ever got hired.

Frankly I don't think there is a state cop in Jersey that could pass a drug test. Every one of them is loaded up on steroids - which may have something to do with the aggressive behavior.

I've also noticed that "Protect and Serve" is no longer on the sides of police cars here.
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Last edited by JimMcGee; 06-28-2013 at 09:00 AM.
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  #42  
Old 06-28-2013
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Re: Am I an 'operator' at anchor?

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Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
That is increasingly the case in New Jersey. I see a greater police presence on my hour drive to the marina than I did when I worked in a real police state in Eastern Europe in the 80's.

Interestingly I've noticed that "protect and serve" is no longer present on the sides of new police cars.
Thats because the supreme court ruled they are no longer obligated to protect or serve.
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  #43  
Old 06-28-2013
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Re: Am I an 'operator' at anchor?

Seeing as I've actually (legally) consumed beers issued to me on board USN vessels, I'd have to say it's not actually a dry Navy.
Look it up, sailors are issued a beer ration under very specific circumstances, and a lot of ships carry beer stored in the brig just for those circumstances.

Mine was off Alexandria Eygpt, while the ship was off-duty, assigned to the task force off Lebanon. At that point it had been 111 days since the crew had touched shore. Individuals had, the crew, no.

As to the drinking at anchor original purpose of the thread...the simple solution seems to be that as soon as you see the flashing blue light you should immediately drop a anchor and quaff a large dose of Rum.
Who's to prove you were imbibing before the drop?
Just kidding.
I can't say I haven't sailed drunk, I can say I won't do it again.
I consider my boat my home when I'm underway.

Cops don't pursue RV's that are parked (imagine them prowling a RV park looking for open beers)- because they can't. Same principal. It becomes a home when you put it in park as long as it's not on the road (i.e. not in a channel, legal anchorage).
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  #44  
Old 06-28-2013
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Re: Am I an 'operator' at anchor?

I just looked up laws as I think the OP really hit an interesting topic. Let's face it, sitting on the hook and enjoying a good dinner, with some adult beverage is a wonderful activity. I've always taken the approach that at anchor, this was a "safe" activity even for the captain of the vessel, but I've never wanted to really push the idea to an extreme, keeping the amount consumed very low (mostly because I might have to pull up anchor do to a yahoo swinging into me, or the anchor drags - then I'm the yahoo).

Some digging on my part lead me to another question that is very similar... I know the BAC in PA is .08 for DUI, and they are matching that lock step with BUI (as they should). But there are other CAR laws that I also thought they translated to BOATS.... such as open container laws... Well guess what? NO there is no open container law for boating in PA. Which means the crew can get loaded apparently, as long as the captain isn't. Hmmm...

I wonder if the PA "intent to drive" law applies to crew that are drinking, which have car keys on their person. HMMM... Fuzzy laws indeed.

Generally speaking, we've had very few issues with lake patrol up our way. The few times I've seen them they basically are just verifying safe boating... and rarely are they overly aggressive with their enforcement. Of course holidays they are everywhere, but then the lake is overrun with people at those times, and it's really necessary.
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  #45  
Old 06-28-2013
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Re: Am I an 'operator' at anchor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Comparing an LEO that is giving a speeding ticket to someone actually speeding, or a summons to someone actually drinking aboard their boat, when there are laws against it, is a rather inappropriate comparison to Nazi war criminals. Come on.
Minne, I get that it's extreme, but I assume Rich is going for shock value.

And not everyone who brushes up against law enforcement is guilty. I have been on the receiving end of a few "fishing expeditions". And my wife and I hardly look "suspicious".
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  #46  
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Re: Am I an 'operator' at anchor?

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Originally Posted by blutoyz View Post
It is very easy to distrust law enforcement in the police state we now live in. Rules and regulations for everything and armed tax collectors for this revenue source for most municipalities in the northeast make it so.
Exactly, the increased militarization of the police (federal and state) with the "us vs. them" mentality (as well as the separation of people into tax payers versus non taxpayers groups, and referring to everyone who is not walking the thin blue line a "citizen" as if they somehow above that designation, etc). Police are no longer you're friendly neighbor, and they are taught that everyone is an criminal until proven otherwise.

This will only get worse as population continues to grow and the culture continues to shift toward a society being taken care of versus one that takes care of itself.
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Last edited by peoples1234; 06-28-2013 at 09:40 AM.
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  #47  
Old 06-28-2013
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Re: Am I an 'operator' at anchor?

To put an international perspective on this question, in Germany when a boat is occupied at anchor there needs to be one person licensed to operate said vessel whose blood alcohol level is under the legal maximum aboard the boat. If not, the skipper can be charged. The rationale behind that is that there might be some circumstance that would require the boat to be moved and someone aboard must be sober enough to do so.
While there have been cases where this interpretation of the law has been applied, the German marine police don't go about checking boats in order to enforce this paragraph.
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Re: Am I an 'operator' at anchor?

On boating and drinking:

I think every responsible person here knows it is just plain wrong. I personally do not drink, and if it is my boat I do not allow alcohol on board., My boat, my rules, your boat, your rules.

On why people are suspicious of police and LEO's in general:

I have a pretty good idea of why that is, and I have spoken with my brother, who was a sheriff's deputy for many years, the reason is that the police have become very aggressive about enforcing laws that they interpret and often make up as they go. It has become increasingly prevalent in courts that a person is no longer given any presumption of innocence, and the LEO's from federal agencies are among the worst offenders in this, they are brainwashed into thinking that they are just incapable of making a mistake. The so called war on drugs has fostered an us against them attitude, and they just plain get off on the rush of kicking in doors and seizing personal property.

This is not going to improve as the federal government continues to grow into an ever more bloated self propelled juggernaut of regulatory power over every aspect of our lives. The sad thing is that the young men and women in law enforcement really started out, for the most part, as wanting to help others, to protect the innocent and stifle the actions of the criminal element in our society. Now they are used as a revenue stream enhancement, and tax collection officers in the form of their fines and fees.

Just a little FYI, every time you see one of those pursuit cars with the laptop, radios, radar, transport cage, and all of the cop goodies, you see $100,000.00 plus of your tax dollars rolling around. When they issue that car to the officer that officer has to bring in enough revenue to pay for it. They do that by fines, fees, and surcharges, and the pressure is incredible on them to perform and pay for that vehicle. The crazy thing is that when they get one of these cars it costs more than the normal cars by more than double the amount, and it takes the money that could be used for salaries out of the budget. The department then cries that they need more of these high priced toys in order to better enforce the law, and also bring in more revenue.

I lived in an area of Houston, TX where the village population was 2800 persons, and there were 30 officers on the payroll, basically one cop for every 100 people. The amount of tickets which were written exceeded a revenue amount of $25,000.00 USD per week! Just plain nuts.
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Last edited by mark2gmtrans; 06-28-2013 at 03:59 PM. Reason: edited because I left out a zero...my bad
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  #49  
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Re: Am I an 'operator' at anchor?

Just my .02 I don't drink much. For me to be legally drunk I'd have to drink enough to make me fall asleep first! And I limit myself to one beer after a beer can race. (can't be non compliant there!)

All that said I'd just as soon not ever have an interaction w/ a LEO. Many, not all, but enough of them are just thugs w/ a gun and badge. And yes, I've been on the receiving end of their nastiness to know.

Sadly, the days of looking to the Police for help are gone. I don't trust any of them.
Cynical? Maybe. But true.
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Old 06-28-2013
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Re: Am I an 'operator' at anchor?

This LEO bashing is getting tiresome. There has always been and will always be people that just don't like authority. Nothing new here. For every bad apple, which exist in all walks of life, including doctors, lawyers, priests, teachers and sailors, I can find you multiple LEO's that make great sailing buddies, good mothers and fathers and would be a friend to anyone here.

They work for the government in all cases. If you have a beef with the laws themselves, take it up with the people that write them. They also become pretty jaded by the number of public that presume them to be guilty, without having done anything to deserve it, and by the number of criminals they deal with daily. They are lied to about a dozen time per day. Hopefully, their lives are actually in danger less often.

To suggest that the US is a police state is the most ridiculous. It eliminates any constructive critique that may have attached to it. Spend some time on the street of a real police state.
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