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  #11  
Old 07-03-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harborless View Post
Its bad for ocean and blue water cruises.
You are not getting proper responses...

I have not heard that an outboard rudder affects sailing capabilities or trim. I have over 40K ocean miles with an outboard rudder and it can not get any simpler.
  • One less hole under the boat
  • Simple arrangement, simple to fix
  • Easy if mounting a wind-vane or autopilot
  • Etc, Etc.

Unfortunately when I was looking for my next boat with an outboard ruder I had to compromise as they are hard to come by at 30 feet plus, but my preference is still valid.
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Old 07-03-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by krisscross View Post
I like transom mounted rudders - they are simple, and when properly mounted - very reliable. The only downside tends to be weather helm when sailing to weather, but if the tiller is long enough that is not a big problem.
You mean that by fixing the tiller you reduced weather helm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by krisscross View Post
Transom mounted rudder makes it harder to steer (especially in strong wind when going upwind) compared to all other types of rudders. That can be counteracted to some degree by reducing sail area and having a long tiller. .
Krisscross, I am not sure if this is correct - that is not a rudder type problem, its a small tiller, no?
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Old 07-03-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

Or alternatively to make it easier to steer, just balance your rudder some, ie. have some of the rudder forward of the pivot axis. This is the only real reason that they are harder to steer, all (probably?) spade rudders are balanced to some degree which is what makes a tiller steered boat with a spade rudder have a lighter feel.

Weather helm is a product of sail placement, trim, and hull form to some degree. There isn't an inherent reason why a transom hung rudder will display more weather helm, it is just that most of them are not balanced to any real degree so have a harder feel. And they are more susceptible to following seas banging them around but not a whole heck of a lot more.

So KrissKross, if you ever build a new rudder, balance it by putting some of the area forward of the pivot and you'll be amazed how much more lively it feels. Then make it a nice NACA 0012 foil and you'll also be amazed at the low speed responsiveness.
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Old 07-03-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

Weather helm is a function of how the rudder is hung. If the extended line through the center of the hinges goes through the effective center of of the rudder there will be no weather helm.

This is difficult to do with some hull designs. A balancing tab on a skeg or keel mounted rudder would be a good crab pot catcher.
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

Not exactly, a HEAVY helm which is CAUSED by weather helm is a product of what you said. Even a perfectly balanced rudder can still have weather helm, which is the boat turning into the wind. The placement of the rudder can affect weather helm, but not the actual balancing part of it.
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Old 07-03-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

Thanks a lot for all the useful information.
It doesnt have a skeg, but a little of the rudder area is in front of the pivot-axis.
You can see it on the drawings here:
NORDSHIP 808 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
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Old 07-03-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia View Post
You mean that by fixing the tiller you reduced weather helm?

Krisscross, I am not sure if this is correct - that is not a rudder type problem, its a small tiller, no?
Longer tiller requires less force to counteract the pressure on the rudder. But the pressure increases quite a bit when the wind is very strong and I'm going to weather. Part of my particular problem is a relatively small swing keel of my boat, which causes quite a bit of leeway, requiring keeping the rudder more sideways to stay on course. So in my case it is a combined effect of several factors. I still love the fact that my transom rudder does not require a hole in my boat.
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harborless View Post
Its bad for ocean and blue water cruises. ...
Huh?




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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

Nice boats!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a transom-mounted rudder for racing or cruising, coastal or ocean voyages - and whoever said there was knows nothing of what they speak..

There are major advantages - like less holes in the boat and the ability to repair or jury-rig something without having to haul the boat out to do so - and perhaps some minor disadvantages if you're hanging an outboard on the back also, but from a performance point of view it makes absolutely no difference at all... it simply comes down to personal preference and the abilities of the yacht's designer.
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

my parents grampian had a transom hung rudder. It never got in the way of the outboard
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