Is external rudder a good idea? - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 57 Old 07-05-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

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Originally Posted by RichH View Post
The outboard hung rudder can have one serious fault: at higher speed and when a boat is well heeled over such a rudder can easily 'ventilate' or 'suck air down along the lower pressure side of the rudder' and the rudder will/can lose ALL control depending on the amount of ventilation.

Couple this with a helmsman who doesnt understand 'weather helm' requiring more rudder angle to overcorrect for adverse helm; include the vulnerability to 'ventilate' ........ and you can expect an unexpected 'pirouette' / unexpected rounding up as a worst case scenario in your future.

Stern hung rudders can easily 'ventilate'.
Totally submerged rudders have great difficulty in 'ventilating'.
Advantage - submerged rudders
Yes that is related to the "end plate" effect that I touched on. Of course the scenario you describe really only comes into play when the boat is already more "out of shape" than it should be. In the case of the boat carrying excessive heel, and so much weather helm that the rudder is on the verge of stalling chances are the inboard rudder is also being exposed to air and turbulent surface water. In that case it too is in danger of "ventilating".

Having said that, it stands to reason that an outboard rudder could be more prone to that problem sooner than the inboard rudder.

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post #32 of 57 Old 07-05-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

5 centuries of explorers, ocean crossers, circumnavigators pirates, privateers, fleet admirals and conquistadors found that transom hung rudders worked just fine. Ships lost usually weren't lost due to the rudder design, but to every damn thing else.
The upside of a transom hung rudder is that there's one less below waterline intrusion, and any repairs are much, much easier to effect.
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post #33 of 57 Old 07-05-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

Again, thanks a lot everyone, I'm now very confident that I am going to like this rudder, and the missing hole in the boat

Regarding the mounts, I took this photo, and I believe they are quite sturdy for a 26' boat? There are wide backplates on the inside.

I've talked to a few owners that have had this kind of boat for many years, and no one have had trouble, or heard of trouble with the rudder.
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post #34 of 57 Old 07-05-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

You have nothing to worry about! The hardware is plenty strong enough. Relax and enjoy your boat!

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post #35 of 57 Old 07-05-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

I think you will have many happy years using that rudder as long as you keep an eye on it.. like anything else on a boat. Do the Maintance and repairs and she will keep you happily afloat for years.

I am a big fan of Cat boats. Those veseels have -huge- "barndoors" for rudders usually. With them you cannot just hard over the rudder to tack, but should do a more calm arch through the wind. With a rudder that size, it does not just stall, but turns into a brake

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post #36 of 57 Old 07-05-2013
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Wink Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

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Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
That's complete rubbish, Rich.. C'mon, surely you know that.

Any modern boat that is is "well heeled" will have enough of the rudder exposed to 'ventilate' and potentially broach very soon thereafter if the helmsman isn't careful. You don't have to compete in many races or look in many books to see that.

If a single-rudder boat is so badly set up that the rudder doesn't "ventilate" to some extent at full heel, then dragging the tail around a racecourse won't win you any races either.
Maybe youve not noticed the trend of dual rudders on many high end, wide beamed, flat bottomed racing boats for the purpose of keeping at least one rudder fully submerged .... something that the fast sailing , 'skimming dish' ILYA scows have been using since the 1890s. Home
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post #37 of 57 Old 07-05-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

A friend said he heard that outboard rudders were more prone to failure, but only those on double enders. I notice that most double enders have the top pintle well below the rail, leaving the top portion of the rudder unsupported, and a bend and a long circuitous route from the top pintle to the end of the tiller.This could be the cause of the problem, as transom sterned boats dont have this problem, and have the top pintle at the top of the transom . It is yet another case of style over substance, easily rectified by putting a filler piece in, to straighten the stern, and put a top pintle at deck level in.
How would such a rudder with a deck level pintle be more vulenerable to damage than an expensive servo pendulum windvane hung on the transom? It seems such a rudder, with a trimtab self steering would be comparatively bulletporoof, and if the vane rig was built out of sch 40 SS pipe, it would be easier to straighten out if bent, anywhere, with no fancy tools. With the bottom of a rudder raked foreward ,it would be more inclined to pull water up it rather than pull air down it, altho anti cavitation plates at the surface ,similar to those used on outboard motors would be an option.
One could easily double the size of gudgeons and pintles with no penalty for doing so.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 07-06-2013 at 08:30 PM.
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post #38 of 57 Old 07-05-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

I had a rudder split a few miles offshore. (I had just gotten the boat, and there was obviously some damage which had occurred when the previous owner had it. He told me he had hit a rock but I did not see any damage when I looked at it.) I pulled my rudder into the cockpit, shot some screws through braces, and put the thing back on.

That's tough to do without a transom-hung rudder.
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post #39 of 57 Old 07-06-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

never had anything else

easier to repair and to spot problems

outboard in a well

perfecto

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post #40 of 57 Old 07-06-2013
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Re: Is external rudder a good idea?

No competent captain would ever venture out in a boat with a transom hung rudder.

Except maybe Columbus, Magellan, Drake, Cook, or Blackbeard.

IMHO whether you're discussing guitars, cars, cameras, guns, or sailboats, there will be people who over-emphasize one particular feature or design point, and condemn any product that possesses what they consider to be the offending feature.

Show me the boat that can't be criticized in some way. Cats don't point, gasoline powered boats explode, skeg rudders get caught on mermaids, full keel boats won't back up, and trimarans.....look silly.
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