Is there a professional sailmaker on this forum? - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 07-05-2013 Thread Starter
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere in the Windward or Leeward Islands
Posts: 2,192
Thanks: 34
Thanked 109 Times in 104 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Is there a professional sailmaker on this forum?

We will soon be in need of a new main sail and I would like to discuss options in design for a roller furling main on a 53' ketch.
Our present sail is a radial design sail of some esoteric fabric called a "tape drive" by HR in NY. Though it is a fantastic sail design wise, the material is failing after only a few hundred days of sailing. However, it seems this is a very labor intensive cut, probably much more expensive than we can afford. I have been toying with the idea of a miter cut sail, as a compromise, giving more strength in the direction of pull on the outhaul, but probably more susceptible to stretching when reefed. At any rate, it may need many small panels rather than several larger ones.
This sail sets much more like a jib than a boomed sail, being loose footed, using the outhaul more than the sheet to obtain a good sail shape. Since most of our sailing is in 20 to 30 knots of wind (usually hard to weather) we often have the sail rolled in to the second spreaders, a DEEP reef, way beyond the reinforced reef points presently on the sail.
I am not a sail designer and would really appreciate some input as to what might work or not. Looking at a sail and sailing with one leads to many ideas, most of which are probably unworkable in reality.
Thanks

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

facebook.com/svskippingstone
Our Videos;

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
capta is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 07-05-2013
Senior Member
 
overbored's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dana Point, Ca
Posts: 1,195
Thanks: 1
Thanked 63 Times in 63 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Is there a professional sailmaker on this forum?

in your avatar you have the main rolled in but no mizzen. a lot of ketch rigged boats sail with a foresail and mizzen when the wind is up. should give the boat a better balanced helm feel and less wear on the mainsail.

"FULL TILT II" 2011 BENETEAU FIRST 30
"FULL TILT" SOVEREL 33
"GOLD RUSH" PRINDLE 16
overbored is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 14 Old 07-06-2013
Senior Member
 
Liquorice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 170
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Is there a professional sailmaker on this forum?

...and the outhaul controls draft depth, not sail shape. It's not a substitute for the mainsheet. This might contribute to your premature mainsail delamination if the sail has been flogging a lot. The clew should be sliding close along your boom on a slug or track.
I suspect you might need a little help with sail trim.

sam :-)
Just because you're paranoid ...doesn't mean they're not after you!
Liquorice is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 14 Old 07-07-2013 Thread Starter
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere in the Windward or Leeward Islands
Posts: 2,192
Thanks: 34
Thanked 109 Times in 104 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Is there a professional sailmaker on this forum?

Gee, in over 50 years of sailing I guess I never learned about sail trim.
I'll get on that right now. I keep seeing ads for that sail trim guide.
The sail never flogs when set as we have infinite reefing with the roller set up and sail to the conditions. See the picture above sailing in 30 knots of wind with a very deep reef.
What I was trying to get at was that I don't think sail design for roller furling boomed sails has quite caught up with the realities of the systems. With infinite reefing, stresses on the sail are not along a reinforced seam as they are in slab reefing and with a loose footed sail the out haul pressure is not directly along the boom, but more like the pull of a high cut Yankee (the boom raises as we reef). Obviously, a high cut Yankee design would cost too much sail area, so I'm looking for ideas on a compromise.
As for the delamination of the tape drive, it was a stupid idea to build a sail of laminated material for a roller furling sail. There is too much chafe along the mast opening and rolling it up is probably not too good for it either. You couldn't give me a sail built of any of the esoteric cloths for cruising, roller furling or not. I like Dacron and it has held up well over many, many thousands miles of sailing on vessels from gaffers built before 1900 to the Maxi racers of the seventies, for me.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

facebook.com/svskippingstone
Our Videos;

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by capta; 07-07-2013 at 01:25 PM.
capta is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 14 Old 07-07-2013
Senior Member
 
Irunbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tampa, Fl
Posts: 322
Thanks: 8
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Is there a professional sailmaker on this forum?

Sorry if I misunderstand your question, Capta- but why not just a plain old heavy dacron sail from someone like Rolly Tasker? I'm sure they make sails for rolling furlers. I frequently use Quantum, and they can be competitive if you give them quotes from other sailmakers, and I know for sure Quantum can make a main for your boat. I could not imagine using a tape drive main for a cruising ketch.. just makes no sense.
Irunbird is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 14 Old 07-07-2013
Member
 
kunkwriter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Jose
Posts: 51
Thanks: 7
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Is there a professional sailmaker on this forum?

Don't know that I can provide any info beyond what you know, but spent some time talking to sail makers at the strictly sail show in Oakland recently. I'm having Lee Sails do a jib and stay for my furlings. I spoke with all the big makers and these guys at Lee knew my boat as well, or better. Their quote was half of what Doyle and Quantum quoted me, and still less than Hong Kong Sail after shipping. I've always used North Sails in the past, but price wise, they were a couple thousand more as well for same material and stitching.
kunkwriter is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 14 Old 07-07-2013
Freedom 39
 
FarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St Thomas USVI
Posts: 1,051
Thanks: 0
Thanked 29 Times in 27 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Is there a professional sailmaker on this forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunbird View Post
Sorry if I misunderstand your question, Capta- but why not just a plain old heavy dacron sail from someone like Rolly Tasker? I'm sure they make sails for rolling furlers. I frequently use Quantum, and they can be competitive if you give them quotes from other sailmakers, and I know for sure Quantum can make a main for your boat. I could not imagine using a tape drive main for a cruising ketch.. just makes no sense.
I'm not a sail maker but spend a lot of time sailing on a variety of boats with inmast furling mains. One issue that I've witnessed was an owner whose request was similar to your comment, "give me really heavy dacron sail that won't fall apart in a blow". The sail was made and upon trying to install the sail a problem appeared immediately.... the new sail material was much thicker and there wasn't quite enough room left in the mast to roll it all the way in!!! The sail had also been ordered with vertical battens. Once the battens were pulled out, it would just roll in, barely. Many errors were made in the process, I hope nobody else makes the same ones in the future...
FarCry is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 14 Old 07-07-2013
Senior Member
 
Irunbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tampa, Fl
Posts: 322
Thanks: 8
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Is there a professional sailmaker on this forum?

Yeah, I would *think* a decent sailmaker wouldn't make that mistake... I'm sure you can't assume too much these days, but dacron comes in a multitude of thicknesses, and the main thing I would expect a boat owner to furnish the sailmaker with would be brand/model of furler so they know how to make the thing fit.
Irunbird is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 14 Old 07-07-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 374
Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Is there a professional sailmaker on this forum?

Sailrite has a sailmaking forum that might be another forum to ask your question.

Sailrite Forum
TejasSailer is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 14 Old 07-07-2013
Freedom 39
 
FarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St Thomas USVI
Posts: 1,051
Thanks: 0
Thanked 29 Times in 27 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Is there a professional sailmaker on this forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquorice View Post
...and the outhaul controls draft depth, not sail shape. It's not a substitute for the mainsheet. This might contribute to your premature mainsail delamination if the sail has been flogging a lot. The clew should be sliding close along your boom on a slug or track.
I suspect you might need a little help with sail trim.
Aren't sail chord depth and draft what sail shape is?

On many modern Bene, Jeanneaus and Hunters, the track on the boom doesn't extend all the way to the mast. When heavily reefed, there is a pretty big gap between the boom and the clew. I do not know why they are engineered that way.
FarCry is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should I believe my sailmaker? MedSailor Gear & Maintenance 2 06-25-2008 04:56 PM
What do you tell your sailmaker? MedSailor Gear & Maintenance 14 05-12-2008 10:44 AM
UK Sailmaker in Jamestown RI fsivo General Discussion (sailing related) 1 05-31-2006 01:31 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome