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  #31  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: Cruising Worlds Top 40 Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
MStern: Very good points, and from that perspective I would agree about the Triton or Cat 30 for that matter.

Dave6330: It would be helpful if you mentioned a budget, general size or the number of crew that you plan to sail with.

Jeff
Not more than $100K USD, 35-40', crew of 2 (myself and my Bride). - with the ability to take on a couple of guests without rendering the cabin unusable...
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Last edited by dave6330; 07-11-2013 at 05:19 PM.
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  #32  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: Cruising Worlds Top 40 Boats

Dave
Look at a cs 40. Easy for a couple to sail and a aft guest cabin.
In the us they are very undervalued. They have fallen off the radar for used boat buyers that dont know the name.
Jim
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  #33  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: Cruising Worlds Top 40 Boats

When are people going to consider how well a boat holds up and what they take to fix when something goes wrong.

How many shoe horns do you need to get in places just to do an oil change or repair other systems.
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  #34  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: Cruising Worlds Top 40 Boats

Mario:
I believe we have that scheduled for next Thursday.
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  #35  
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Re: Cruising Worlds Top 40 Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioG View Post
When are people going to consider how well a boat holds up and what they take to fix when something goes wrong.

I many shoe horns do you need to get in places just to do an oil change or repair other systems.
Definitely a consideration. However, I believe their are Rolls Royces out there that are absolute lemons and there are probably some Yugos that still run perfectly. Breeding counts but I think individual care and maintenance trumps.
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  #36  
Old 07-12-2013
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Re: Cruising Worlds Top 40 Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave6330 View Post
Not more than $100K USD, 35-40', crew of 2 (myself and my Bride). - with the ability to take on a couple of guests without rendering the cabin unusable...
How about this Whitby 42 in Alaska? (one of Cruising World's top 40 nominees)

1973 Whitby 42 sailboat for sale in Alaska

...although there is one in Virginia for less than $70K...
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Re: Cruising Worlds Top 40 Boats

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I have copied the list of nominees from Cruising World's 40 best cruising boats of All Times(below) to keep people from having to search for it. To me this is one very strange list both for the boats included and those it does not include.

At some level, I can rationalize why most of these boats are on the list, while I am totally baffled by others. After all these are supposed to be the the 40 best cruising boats of all time. Two words jump out at me, 'best' and 'all time'. I find myself asking are these boats really the best 40 cruising boats of all time? Really?

When I work my way down the list there are quite a few boats which are charismatic and draw at the heart strings, which is not a bad thing, but this is not a beauty contest. Its a search for best cruising boats of all times and it seems to me that for a boat to be included on a list of 40 greatest cruising boats, it first and foremost must clear the hurdle of functionally being a great cruising boat.

To me the most critical piece of what makes a cruising boat 'great' is how it functions. The rest is icing on the cake. Cruising implies a certain minimuim level functional requirement, and even the accompanying article seems to suggest that Cruising World saw meeting a minimum functional requirement as being a part of the criteria.

To me, at a minimum, cruising boats need to provide shelter and house their crews; providing a reasonably minimumally a place to sleep, eat, navigate and vacate thier bowels. They need to carry adequate consumables and operating gear to sustain a voyage of some reasonable length. They need some degree of self-sufficiency.

They also need to be reasonably good sailing boats; able to sail well across a broad windrange, have a decent level of motion comfort, protect thier crews, offer safe cockpits and appropriate sail handling gear. Be robust enough to take whatever nature hands out.

So, if this is the 40 best of all times, why are there so many boats on this list that fail horribly at that minimum price of admission?

But beyond that, to be the best of anything, the candidates should be exceptional. Some of these are really crummy boats by any reasonable comparative standard. Why are they on any list of potential 'best of all times'.

With that all in mind, I cannot understand how boats like the Alberg 30, Alerion Express 28, Beneteau Sense 50, Columbia 50, Dufour Arpege 30, Hinckley Bermuda 40, Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 43DS, Moore 24, Pearson Triton, Pearson Vanguard, Hunter 356 even ended up on this list.

Compared to all of the choices out there boats like the Alberg 30, Pearson Triton, Pearson Vanguard, while cheap to buy, and with care and the right skipper can be cruised, in any fair comparason these were not all that well constructed, do not sail all that well in light air and really beat up a crew in a breeze. If the magazine was looking for a well rounded small cruising design from the 1960's, why isn't the Morgan 24/25 or Tartan 27 on this list.

The Hinckley Bermuda 40 is a beautiful boat to look at, were well constructed, and are fun to sail if for no other reason that they are not a great sailing boat, but they are miserable as cruising boats being essentially submarines with a mast or two, short on carrying capacity and internal space, sail on their ear in enough breeze to get them moving, roll and pitch miserably and requires great skill and a lot of hard crew work to keep them safe in breeze.

While someone may chose to cruise any of these boats, given their limitations, are they really candidates for 'best of all time'.

Or how did something as unforgiving and squirelly to sail as the Dufour Arpege 30 make this list? Dufour has built some very nice boats, but this was not one of them.

The Moore 24 is a super little race boat, and a very cool design. I love these boats. But again, how did it show up on this list? If you wanted to include ultralight cruisers wouldn't something like the Express 27 or Laser 28 make more sense since they actually have something resembling cruising accommodations?

There are a cluster of interesting and decent production coastal cruisers on the list. Some of these are emblematic of a particular place and time, and some are good boats in their own right, but when I think about each I find myself asking what makes them exceptional enough to be on this list?

The polling at this point shows the Island Packet 38 as leading as the number 1 best of all time. To me this boat fails on the sailing ability characteristics being lousy in light air, corky in a rough stuff, and not great heavy air boats. They are good live aboards, they have benefitted from aggressive advertising, but are these really the best cruising boat of all times? If that is what the readers of Cruising World believe to be true, then I seriously question the criteria of these readers.

I need more time to finish my thoughts, but I am out of time.

Respectfully,
Jeff

Alberg 30
Alerion Express 28
Beneteau 423
Beneteau Sense 50
Bristol 40
C&C Landfall 38
Cal 40
Catalina 30
Contessa 26
Columbia 50
CSY 44
Dufour Arpege 30
Freedom 40
Gulfstar 50
Gozzard 36
Hallberg-Rassy 42
Hinckley Bermuda 40
Hunter 356
Hylas 49
Islander 36
Island Packet 38
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 43DS
Mason 43/44
Morgan Out Island 41
Moore 24
Morris 36
Nonsuch 30
NoríSea 27
Pacific Seacraft 37
Passport 40
Pearson Triton
Pearson Vanguard
Peterson 44
Sabre 36
Swan 44
Tartan 34
Tayana 37
Valiant 40
Westsail 32
Whitby 42

"Bermuda 40-without question the greatest fiberglass boat of all time" Ferenc Matte The World's Best Sailboats

I think she belongs on the list.

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  #38  
Old 07-13-2013
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Re: Cruising Worlds Top 40 Boats

Passport 40 got my vote but disappointed the Tartan 37 didn't make the list
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  #39  
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Re: Cruising Worlds Top 40 Boats

Chef:
Me too. That's a hard one to figure out. I'm going sailing on a T37 on Tuesday. Can't wait. Never sailed one before.

Pet:
You do rrealize that people PAID Ferenc Matte to get in that book. Right? That said, I would say that the B40 deserves consideration. I'm a fan of just about everything that Tripp designed.
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  #40  
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Re: Cruising Worlds Top 40 Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Chef:
Me too. That's a hard one to figure out. I'm going sailing on a T37 on Tuesday. Can't wait. Never sailed one before.

Pet:
You do rrealize that people PAID Ferenc Matte to get in that book. Right? That said, I would say that the B40 deserves consideration. I'm a fan of just about everything that Tripp designed.
I certainly agree on the T37. Should be on the list.
Bob....you would know better on Matte book but having said that I've never read a bad review on a Bermuda 40 except for by Jeff H. Kretschmer gave her a "rare five stars for construction quality"."Her steering easy and well balanced." Henderson called her a thoroughbred and like other Tripp centerboarders a splendid performer in most conditions.
To me, quality of build is at the top of the list. They sail well and resale value is good. Row away factor is second to none in my opinion.
I like most Tripp designs as well.
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