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  #21  
Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

Quote:
Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
I don't think it is anything to admire in the fact that he took completely unnecessary risks, in his "adventure" that he was completely unprepared for. He inconvenienced the tanker in asking them to save him. He leaves his boat to drift as the article said through busy shipping lanes(should have scuttled it seems he had plenty of time), so he put those in the shipping lanes at risk. He can't be bothered to get insurance on the boat. He is surprised that it just shows up, what did he think it would just disappear after he abandoned it. He seems happy to have his collection of running shoes back?

Oh don't let your responsibilities get in the way of a race. No way, just leave your boat on the beach for others to deal with. Yea, that is something to admire, unfortunately it is what is becoming the American way, no need to take responsibility for our own actions. It must be someone else fault, can't be mine. Hum who should I sue about this, it cant be my fault after all they let me sail out into the open ocean alone, unprepared, not knowing what I was doing and not knowing what to expect. Perhaps it is my parents faults, after all they raised me to be irresponsible. Yea I can admire that, oh no wait I can't because it is called being irresponsible.

If you own a boat, yes you should be responsible and take care of it. If you are not willing to do that then don't buy one, join a sail club and pay them to take care of it for you. Unfortunately our lives are full of responsibilities.
Little worked up there?

How many boats are scuttled as they abandoned? Percentage? I would wager most are not.

He took five months to prepare and outfit the boat. How much more prepared could he be? As for the weather, to get experience you have to live through it. IMO, he gave up the ship too readily. That was poor judgement because he lacked experience. A more experienced sailor would have told him to sit down and shut up! The boat is just fine! Butttt, he didn't have the experience and he made what he believed was the right call.

OTOH, thousands have gone before him and done exactly what he attempted to do, sail a small boat across the ocean. And they did it! Successfully!!! Most had little or no previous experience. Some have gone on to write books about it and be hailed by the sailing community as heros of sort. That's the flip side. Yet, they were no more prepared than this guy.

On leaving the boat. Did i read this wrong or did he hire a tow company to to get the boat off? That sounds to me an awfull lot like taking responsibility. Regardless, short of hitting it with a Sawz-all what's he supposed to do?

Then there's the legal question because he abandoned the boat does he still own it?

That he thought the boat was at such peril that he is surprised it didn't sink tells you that at the time he got off he thought the boat wasn't going to make it.

The CG was aware of the boat floating out there and did nothing. The Edgartown Fire Department did nothing to keep the boat off the beach, even though they could have easily taken it in tow, and you are PO'd at this guy? The guy's plans are to live his life, which in this case means running that race. IMO, good for him! After-all, standing on the beach trying to give it a good push isn't going to help, so why not?
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  #22  
Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

Considering all the good people who did nothing...I'm just PO'd at them ALL for not giving me a phone call. I'd have grabbed the boat, slapped a new name on the stern, and thank the original owner for his generous gift.

Doesn't anyone have any sympathy for all the potential salvors who got screwed out of this one? After the original owner was SO kind as to leave the boat in sailaway condition?
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJC45 View Post
Little worked up there?

How many boats are scuttled as they abandoned? Percentage? I would wager most are not.
True but most should be, and if not salvage arrangements be made. Again he is not taking responsibility for his actions.

Quote:
He took five months to prepare and outfit the boat. How much more prepared could he be? As for the weather, to get experience you have to live through it. IMO, he gave up the ship too readily. That was poor judgement because he lacked experience. A more experienced sailor would have told him to sit down and shut up! The boat is just fine! Butttt, he didn't have the experience and he made what he believed was the right call.

OTOH, thousands have gone before him and done exactly what he attempted to do, sail a small boat across the ocean. And they did it! Successfully!!! Most had little or no previous experience. Some have gone on to write books about it and be hailed by the sailing community as heros of sort. That's the flip side. Yet, they were no more prepared than this guy.
Because others are irresponsible does not mean that you should be as well. 5 months is nowhere near enough time to gain the experience necessary. Others have done it yes, Tania Aebi (but she did it in a new and outfitted boat) is one example who just happened to survive. But it is not uncommon for a fit out of a new to you boat to take years, to do it right for real offshore voyages. 5 months experience sailing is nothing, unlikely to even see much bad weather in that time, and if he was outfitting his boat during that time likely only a a little bit of time on the actual water.

Quote:
On leaving the boat. Did i read this wrong or did he hire a tow company to to get the boat off? That sounds to me an awfull lot like taking responsibility. Regardless, short of hitting it with a Sawz-all what's he supposed to do?

Then there's the legal question because he abandoned the boat does he still own it?

That he thought the boat was at such peril that he is surprised it didn't sink tells you that at the time he got off he thought the boat wasn't going to make it.

The CG was aware of the boat floating out there and did nothing. The Edgartown Fire Department did nothing to keep the boat off the beach, even though they could have easily taken it in tow, and you are PO'd at this guy? The guy's plans are to live his life, which in this case means running that race. IMO, good for him! After-all, standing on the beach trying to give it a good push isn't going to help, so why not?

Well it is not the Fire department's job to tow his boat, and would likely open them to liability. Again trying to shirk responsibilities off on someone else.

I don't know if he hired the salvage operation or if they are doing it to claim the boat. Legally he still owns it and is responsible for any damages it may do, including environmental. But anyone who pulls the boat off the beach can claim ownership if they want, as that is marine salvage law. I doubt he will show back up to clean up or pay for his salvage. Does not seem to be in his character from what we have seen so far. And yes if he needs to he should be the one taking a sawz-all to it if need be, or at least interrupting his busy racing schedule to manage the job. Again I don't see any trace of admirable actions on his part. After all it is just easier to drive away in a nice air conditioned RV. Why do you seem so happy to see him shirk his responsibility? You seem a bit defensive.
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

Quote:
Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
True but most should be, and if not salvage arrangements be made. Again he is not taking responsibility for his actions.

As soon as he found out the boat was on the beach he took action to reclaim it.

As for not scuttling it, In all the coast guard footage of boat rescues out there on TV and You Tube i don't see the coast guard or anyone on these boats risking their lives to scuttle the boats. maybe, you are right here, these boats should be scuttled. But more than harsh that you hold this guy to a higher standard than others.




Because others are irresponsible does not mean that you should be as well. 5 months is nowhere near enough time to gain the experience necessary. Others have done it yes, Tania Aebi (but she did it in a new and outfitted boat) is one example who just happened to survive. But it is not uncommon for a fit out of a new to you boat to take years, to do it right for real offshore voyages. 5 months experience sailing is nothing, unlikely to even see much bad weather in that time, and if he was outfitting his boat during that time likely only a a little bit of time on the actual water.

IMO these people are not irresponsible. They are rookies. That so many have done the same as this guy and written about it, if nothing else, probably encouraged him. I disagree that it takes years of experience to venture across oceans. Not that it's a bad thing, just that everyone has their own comfort level. IMO, what this guy did, buy a boat, take five months to outfit it and learn how to sail it was not beyond the realm of reason.



Well it is not the Fire department's job to tow his boat, and would likely open them to liability. Again trying to shirk responsibilities off on someone else.

Yeah, we'd remove the hazzrd to navigation and keep the boat from hurting people as it pounds its way onto the beach, but its not our job." Seriously?

I don't know if he hired the salvage operation or if they are doing it to claim the boat. Legally he still owns it and is responsible for any damages it may do, including environmental. But anyone who pulls the boat off the beach can claim ownership if they want, as that is marine salvage law. I doubt he will show back up to clean up or pay for his salvage. Does not seem to be in his character from what we have seen so far. And yes if he needs to he should be the one taking a sawz-all to it if need be, or at least interrupting his busy racing schedule to manage the job. Again I don't see any trace of admirable actions on his part. After all it is just easier to drive away in a nice air conditioned RV. Why do you seem so happy to see him shirk his responsibility? You seem a bit defensive.
you think i'm defensive? Hmm? I don't see him as shirking responsibilty. Only following his ordered priorities. The purpose of buying the boat was to add some adventure to his running itinerary. Running is a lifestyle. The boat is a material thing. I see it that he isn't letting the material thing reorder his lifestyle. He is not letting the toy own him. Tough concept huh?

Yeah, the boat is a problem. one that can be dealt with by phone from anywhere in the world. And even from his RV

Last edited by TJC45; 07-15-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

Am I missing something? What about individual responsibility?

One buys a boat, goes sailing, then abandons ship asking a freighter to save you. You leave the boat to be a hazard to navigation by not scuttling it and lastly leave it on a pristine beach so you can run a road race.

I find this behavior indefensible. Not the attempt to try the sailing adventure, but the walking away from the boat once the decision to abandon was made. He essentially said "Not my problem any more! Your problem now." It makes me puke.
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

Yea, live life, no consequences. Heck you don't want to miss a race! That would be awful.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

What I find interesting in how different the opinions of the people here are. What THEY consider important. The captain in question made lots of choices, but what is so curious is what people chose as the most salient point. Is is not, if we, put in a similar place we will choose the path that we consider the "most" beneficial?
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

Quote:
Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
Oh don't let your responsibilities get in the way of a race. No way, just leave your boat on the beach for others to deal with...

...salvage arrangements be made. Again he is not taking responsibility for his actions...

...Well it is not the Fire department's job to tow his boat, and would likely open them to liability. Again trying to shirk responsibilities off on someone else...

...I doubt he will show back up to clean up or pay for his salvage. Does not seem to be in his character from what we have seen so far. And yes if he needs to he should be the one taking a sawz-all to it if need be, or at least interrupting his busy racing schedule to manage the job. Again I don't see any trace of admirable actions on his part. After all it is just easier to drive away in a nice air conditioned RV. Why do you seem so happy to see him shirk his responsibility?
You might want to re-read the story a bit more closely...

From the article:

Quote:

Mr. Heldenbrand arrived in Falmouth on Tuesday, planning to salvage his boat. He was in Georgia when he found out about her unlikely reappearance...

Mr. Heldenbrand is approaching the salvage operation methodically. "I need to see the damage, weigh the cost," he said. "I've got to get this boat off the beach, then I've got to be smart about what I do with it. I've got my RV here, and the boat is here, and I need to get the boat down south somehow, and I need to get the RV down south, too. I haven't figured out how to do [both] yet, but I'll figure it out."

Mr. Heldenbrand won't let salvage and repairs to Running Free interrupt his race schedule. He plans to be at the starting line in four weeks for that race in England, even though his original transportation plans have necessarily changed.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

A bit more info in this bit from CW:

Sailboat Washes Ashore on Martha's Vineyard | Cruising World

No HF receiver aboard, no means of monitoring weather other than a barometer...

Quote:

“In retrospect, not having a way to check the weather was a bad decision, but I guess that’s what makes for good stories later.”
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

Not to throw this thread off track but this whole discussion makes me believe that insurance should be a requirement. I know many will not agree but if you are going to go on an "adventure" then you should be able to pay for the aftermath if things go wrong. I keep reading these stories of boats stuck on the beaches and the owners have no money to pay for the removal so who pays? the tax payers do thats who. When you drive a car you have to have insurance to protect other drivers and the government. Ever run into a stop sign? you will get a bill to replace it from the town and your insurance pays it. Pretty simple. I am not a fan of mandatory anything but the more this type of thing happens the more it seems the answer is the owners need to take responsibility and insurance is one way to do that. There is nothing wrong with taking risks and having adventures it is the American way but the problem comes when people do this and then let others have to deal with the mess left over. If these owners had insurance this would be a non issue. Just thinking out loud here.
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