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  #31  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

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Originally Posted by sailvayu View Post
Not to throw this thread off track but this whole discussion makes me believe that insurance should be a requirement. I know many will not agree but if you are going to go on an "adventure" then you should be able to pay for the aftermath if things go wrong. I keep reading these stories of boats stuck on the beaches and the owners have no money to pay for the removal so who pays? the tax payers do thats who. When you drive a car you have to have insurance to protect other drivers and the government. Ever run into a stop sign? you will get a bill to replace it from the town and your insurance pays it. Pretty simple. I am not a fan of mandatory anything but the more this type of thing happens the more it seems the answer is the owners need to take responsibility and insurance is one way to do that. There is nothing wrong with taking risks and having adventures it is the American way but the problem comes when people do this and then let others have to deal with the mess left over. If these owners had insurance this would be a non issue. Just thinking out loud here.
Personal responsibility. The world needs more of it. It begins with proper parenting.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

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Originally Posted by sailvayu View Post
Not to throw this thread off track but this whole discussion makes me believe that insurance should be a requirement. I know many will not agree but if you are going to go on an "adventure" then you should be able to pay for the aftermath if things go wrong. I keep reading these stories of boats stuck on the beaches and the owners have no money to pay for the removal so who pays? the tax payers do thats who. When you drive a car you have to have insurance to protect other drivers and the government. Ever run into a stop sign? you will get a bill to replace it from the town and your insurance pays it. Pretty simple. I am not a fan of mandatory anything but the more this type of thing happens the more it seems the answer is the owners need to take responsibility and insurance is one way to do that. There is nothing wrong with taking risks and having adventures it is the American way but the problem comes when people do this and then let others have to deal with the mess left over. If these owners had insurance this would be a non issue. Just thinking out loud here.
I agree that I am not in favor of "mandatory" but if you have ever been hit by an uninsured motorist then you understand. The bigger issue is that I think many do not think of the costs involved. A boat sinking can cost tens of thousands of dollars to clean up if not much more. If you are not prepared to pay that out of pocket, then you should at least carry liability with environmental clean up.

Now I will back off a bit, as after re-reading the article it does sound like he may be trying to salvage the boat. If he had insurance it would be a moot point. He still left the boat floating out in the ocean, with no regard as to what damage it might do. He did not even seem to want to search for it, just figured oh I lost my toy. And went out there completely unprepared saying
Quote:
In retrospect, not having a way to check the weather was a bad decision, but I guess that’s what makes for good stories later.
Heck this guy money was not even really an issue, he just was unprepared. All he would have needed was a cheap shortwave receiver and a $5 cable and software to get weather reports, but he obviously did not do the necessary research. This is not the 1900's there are simple and sometimes relatively cheap solutions to a lot of issues for blue water sailing. Running is one thing, OK you can stop if you get shin splints but open ocean cruising is a completely different thing. There is no stopping once you are out there, it is a commitment that is much bigger. Not one to be taken so lightly as this guy did. Yes if he succeeded he would have been an "adventurer."
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

Tsk Tsk... the guys a beginner give him a break... if he had years of Offshore racing experience in Europe and the Med then abandoned his Swan would it be any different... not really... experience is relative to what one is used to or have experienced... one would think the Swan owner would go the distance.. all that experience but.. small cajone's..
To this guy with his lack of experience 20ft sea's must have seemed mountainous.. and 40kt winds to boot... no one wants to die alone.. that's why there's so many 'Crew Wanted' ad's... like most animals safety is viewed in numbers... the more people the safer one is.. Wrong... LOL
'The Perfect Storm' theme would having been ringing in his ears... not surprised he chose to jump ship...
As for insurance... here's where folks ignorance rears its head... its hard enough to get full cover for a crewed Ocean crossing... solo?.. not a hope in hell..
Best I can get solo is out to 200miles.. then uninsured till back inside a 200mile limit again..
As for responsibility... seems he's taking it head on...
But it seems to me your much vaunted 'Services' don't... CG and Fire dept...

Last edited by boatman61; 07-16-2013 at 05:51 PM.
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

Any details about the storm? 40kt is second reef DW and third up. Not yet down to trysail. ? Question logic doing the pond alone as first blue sail. Hell I'd want four crew but then again I'm a wimp and have been scared before.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

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Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
Tania Aebi (but she did it in a new and outfitted boat) is one example who just happened to survive. But it is not uncommon for a fit out of a new to you boat to take years,
Tania had at least one ocean crossing as a crew before her solo adventure. Actually, out of many sailing books a have read, all successful sailors had built their experience long before taking solo trip.
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Any details about the storm? 40kt is second reef DW and third up. Not yet down to trysail. ? Question logic doing the pond alone as first blue sail. Hell I'd want four crew but then again I'm a wimp and have been scared before.
LOL... 40kts is deep reefed and hove to with kettle on and digestives out for me...
Your a bolder man than me Gunga Din...
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Any details about the storm? 40kt is second reef DW and third up. Not yet down to trysail. ? Question logic doing the pond alone as first blue sail. Hell I'd want four crew but then again I'm a wimp and have been scared before.
Well, I'm gonna guess he didn't have a trysail... And, perhaps it's just me, but I would have struck that cockpit bimini long before the breeze got up to 40...

Probably that offset companionway that finally did him in... :-)




From everything I see on his Facebook page, that boat was minimally rigged for coastal cruising, nothing more... I don't see any jacklines, for example, in that pic - though I suppose that yellow line on centerline might be an attempt to serve some such purpose... when the time comes for me to climb a Jacob's ladder to the deck of a merchant ship, however, damn straight I'll be wearing a harness, hopefully attached to a tag line lowered from the ship... :-)

Sounds like the reports of his spending 5 months prepping for this voyage are a bit 'optimistic' ... Here's his account of his FIRST attempt at anchoring, roughly ONE MONTH prior to his departure...

Quote:

Well, it seems that there are plenty of ways to screw up when I'm learning something new. Two days ago I untied from the dock and headed out in the St Johns river to test my anchoring system. Just getting away from the dock can be challenging but that part went well. I found a suitable spot and lowered the anchor using the electric winch system I had installed. That went well and the anchor, a 44lb Danforth, seemed to set well in the river bottom. Then it was time to assemble my new dinghy which was stored below deck since purchased. I hauled it up to the foredeck, assembled it and launched it over the side after tying a line to it and tying the other end to a stanchion. I then went to the bow to doublecheck the anchoring, turned around in time to see the dinghy floating down the river! My initial impulse was to jump in the river and swim after it but I decided that wasn't a good idea. Long story short, after 3 hours of chasing it in the sailboat I finally retrieved it and all is well. Phew!
Yeah, what could have POSSIBLY gone wrong with this one? :-)

Definitely seems like an interesting character, and he's one tough cookie, no doubt about it... Great attitude, probably just a tad naive about what it might take to best enhance one's chances of a successful solo crossing of the North Atlantic Ocean... :-)





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Last edited by JonEisberg; 07-16-2013 at 07:37 PM.
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

Depends on wave period and point of sail and boat. Down wind that's 30kts apparent for us and if off shelf waves don't break as much. Double reefed main with proventer. Three twists in solent with pole. 10kts. Not too bad. You wouldn't puke. Short wave period and gusty different story. Storm jib or bare pole with jordan drogue. Think wave height average of highest 2/3 and speed average sustained speed. That's why interested in details. Line squall over quickly or nor easter with 3days of torture.
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Last edited by outbound; 07-16-2013 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 07-17-2013
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

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Originally Posted by CrazyRu View Post
Tania had at least one ocean crossing as a crew before her solo adventure. Actually, out of many sailing books a have read, all successful sailors had built their experience long before taking solo trip.
I'm not so sure about how to rate her level of experience. She describes herself as not much more than an unwilling passenger on that trans atlantic crossing. And, later admits to being scared to death to begin the journey. Didn't she have trouble anchoring in Horse Shoe Cove at Sandy Hook?

Yetttttt, a day or so later, out of sight of land, she manages to adaptly find and repair a serious leak that would have sunk her boat in short order if she was unable to deal with it. Then she goes on to navigate her way to Bermuda. It was Bermuda right? Not bad for a rookie!

The point is, while she did her best to try to come off as a directionless trust fund baby with little interest in doing anything but getting a suntan, she managed to sail that boat like a pro!

If anything i'd call her experienced. But the book confused me as to her ability before setting off.

What about the kid who sailed Dove around the world?
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Re: Interesting tale of a captain who abandoned vessel

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Originally Posted by TJC45 View Post
I'm not so sure about how to rate her level of experience. She describes herself as not much more than an unwilling passenger on that trans atlantic crossing. And, later admits to being scared to death to begin the journey. Didn't she have trouble anchoring in Horse Shoe Cove at Sandy Hook?

Yetttttt, a day or so later, out of sight of land, she manages to adaptly find and repair a serious leak that would have sunk her boat in short order if she was unable to deal with it. Then she goes on to navigate her way to Bermuda. It was Bermuda right? Not bad for a rookie!

The point is, while she did her best to try to come off as a directionless trust fund baby with little interest in doing anything but getting a suntan, she managed to sail that boat like a pro!

If anything i'd call her experienced. But the book confused me as to her ability before setting off.

What about the kid who sailed Dove around the world?
Robin Lee Graham actually had a considerable amount of experience before setting out...

Quote:

SAIL:You sailed around the world as a teen, but now youíre an adult and have two grown children and three grandchildren. Do you still think itís a good idea for someone so young to be subjected to the dangers involved in chasing such goals?

Graham: I had a lot of experience before I set sail. I could navigate, was a competent sailor and already had a lot of bluewater experience cruising with my family. I had the strong desire to do it, and knew I was capable of doing it.

Robin Lee Graham on the Latest Teen Circumnavs | Sail Magazine
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