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  #11  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Will design for food.
In steel???
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  #12  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
WHAT?!? You mean those marina queens are intended to be SAILED???
Haven't you seen the pictures? You know, the ones where the guy from the "Hair color for men" commercial is at the helm and the rest of the crew are his granddaughters and their friends.

On a more serious note, a recent ad in SAIL had Beneteau describing their Sense as having "cat like" qualities. The room of a catamaran and the sailability of a monohull. Beneteau owns Jeanneau and Lagoon too. It's easy to see where they are going.
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  #13  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

To deniceO30 If you read it once more slowly you might understand the rant, and get the general picture of a safe boat that is easy to handle.
To Jeff H Why roly motion? As you very well know there are different types of motion behavior depending on the design. There is no such thing as a good, hobby-horsing motion. Most of todayís boats fall under motion category stress and diabetes. I believe that we were talking FLD Family cruiser for long distances. They come closer to reflecting out of date dogma rather than reflecting the science behind yacht design. Sorry to have to tell you that the science of todayís only reflect the racing rules. Has it ever occurred to you that actually were a Fastnet race tragedy? Something classified as a giant dhingy is not what Iím looking for. The Vikings designed that type a long time agoo, and they were good for real speed.
To Jon Eisberg It is the yacht designer, that creates building specification, and so forth. It is up to him to check, that the yard actually follow up on his specification, and isnít trying to save money through weaker constructions. There is usually a binding contract between the parties. They donít want it because it is too expensive. With todayís global economy it only needs one yard, that can produce a long serie of a yacht. Picture windows, what does that has to do with safety thinking?
To LinekinBayCD ďI chartered 33' & 35' Scanmars circa 1980Ē, good for you. If you had bought one you would by now know, that the fastening of the keel and the GRP specification, has a lot more to desire.
To TDW It seems to me that there are more nutrients needed, both minerals and vitamins.
To Bob Perry I know you design for food, but a bottle of bubbles wonít hurt you.As I see it there is a lot of conservatism among the yacht designers of the world. Everyone tries to copy a selling idea into his own project. It is now time to think beyond the Viking freighter. A yacht that is safe with a hobby-horsing that is gentle to all of the crew. The problem for you is that you need to find a yard with ultra-modern manufacturing technique.
To Julie More Iím positive to your thinking but it is not only a question of the cockpit area. Many injuries is due to the fact of foul weather trousers is missing in the pantry. And this has to do with yacht motions.
To Chall03 We have already established that steel is out of the question due to its weight.
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Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Groans:
" It is now time to think beyond the Viking freighter."

Apparently you are not very familiar with the range of my designs. I have designed a few "Viking freighters" in my time but I have also designed boats that over the last few years have been winning the Swiftsure Race consistantly including ICON, NIGHT RUNNER and the FD10m. You could hardly find a more diverse group of fast boats and none of them could ever be considered "Viking freighters". Your overall view seems a bit myopic to me.
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Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

100K for a decent specimen in that lovely design of yesteryear and another 150K (+/- 150K) for a complete refit and you have a new boat.

Or, as Bob Perry has offered, for the price of more than one large pizza you will get a design that has everything you want. Take it to the builder of your choice. You will have everything you ever wanted.

I think your real problem, the one you are not telling us about, is money.

It's OK, most of us have the same problem.
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Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Quote:
If I suggest a Colin Archer design, so all laughs.Everybody knows that it is heavy and slow. 9 knots with a CA40 is not so bad? When Colin Archer designed his yachts they had to be seaworthy and able to withstand foul weather. Everyone knows that he succeeded.
"I've always loved the Colin Archer and Bill Atkin double enders but they are expensive and difficult to build and there was no way, especially back when I was a young guy chomping at the bit to 'get out there' that I could ever afford to buy one, nor did I have the skills to build one. But I loved the look.

The solution was what I now call my Vagabond boats; double enders, low and sleek, cutter rigged. I think these boats are the essence of the ocean cruising sailboat; sort of the 'Volksboat' or "Every Man's" cruiser. They ARE obtainable, if you have the energy, or perhaps courage is a better word, to get off your tail and do it. The original was a 26' cutter, the first JUNO." ~ George Buehler

George Buehler Yacht Design Home Page
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Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Ummm..... I'm having a difficult time understanding the rant, it's not very specific while using a lot of words. Can the OP provide an example of a boat that they consider acceptable? Spray, perhaps?

Personally, I find the characteristics of modern hull design to be an amazing evolution of science and materials technology. The reality is that boats suffer far less breakage at sea than ever before. And while we may read of a few examples of accidents at sea each year, considering the sheer volume of boats on the water, technology has made coastal and offshore boating far faster and safer than when I started in the 1970's.

Speaking of the 70's, I worked a few boat shows for two Catalina dealers. Almost without exception, people coming aboard a boat dive below to look at the accommodations. Very few spend more than a few moments on deck. That was 40 years ago, people are people and it has nothing to do with "modern" design or "modern" desires... unless modern is defined as anything more recent than 1960.
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Heres a real modern Norse 'freighter';
Home
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Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
Haven't you seen the pictures? You know, the ones where the guy from the "Hair color for men" commercial is at the helm and the rest of the crew are his granddaughters and their friends.
Yeah... but I thought they were only motoring - into the sunset in <5kts and flat water.
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Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grona hisse View Post
To Jeff H Why roly motion? As you very well know there are different types of motion behavior depending on the design.
When you talk about traditional designs, its hard to avoid large roll angles. The comparatively high vertical centers of gravity and low centers of buoyancy meant that there was comparatively little dampening, and the heavy spars meant that there were large roll moments of inertia carried up high creating the likelihood of excitation rolling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grona hisse View Post
There is no such thing as a good, hobby-horsing motion. Most of todayís boats fall under motion category stress and diabetes. I believe that we were talking FLD Family cruiser for long distances.
It sounds like we agree that there is no such thing as good hobby-horsing. I don't know what the sentence about modern boatss falling in a category of stress and diabetes. Its not really English. But within the realm of moderately conservative modern design, the have been huge advances in addressing motion comfort, boats which roll and pitch at slower rates and through smaller roll angles than more traditional designs, which is not to say that there aren't also stripped out race boats and more agressive designs with less comfortable motions. These more conservative modern designs work well as family cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grona hisse View Post
To Jeff H They come closer to reflecting out of date dogma rather than reflecting the science behind yacht design. Sorry to have to tell you that the science of todayís only reflect the racing rules. Has it ever occurred to you that actually were a Fastnet race tragedy?
I am very familiar with the lessons of the Fastnet Tragedy and the huge advances in scientific understanding which has occurred in the 34 years since. While race boats tend to reflect the racing rules, and there are aspects of cruising designs that are derived from the lessons learned from race boats, for the most part the design of modern boats largely reflect the lessons learned from the Fastnet and the scientific studies which followed. These newer boats are safer, easier to handle, often have more comfortable motions and are faster than anything which came before. You should try to learn about the science behind the better of these designs, and spend time sailing boats of a variety of periods before condemning them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grona hisse View Post
To Jeff H The Vikings designed that type a long time ago, and they were good for real speed.
The Viking ships were amazing technology for the bronze age. They were ingenious and fast for their time. But they required large crews to operate, went missing routinely, and took enormous skill and strength to sail. They were dog slow in most conditions compared to modern designs, had limited up wind capabilities, and would be very limited as a family cruiser. The bronze age was a long time ago and a lot has happened since....

Respectfully,
Jeff
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