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  #21  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Yeah, what Jeff said and,,,,no enclosed head.
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  #22  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Yeah, what Jeff said and,,,,no enclosed head.
Real men don't need no door on the head. Hell, real men need no more than a bucket and a piece of wet and dry sand paper.
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  #23  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Quote:
What happened to the good family boat?
For what purpose and what body of water? Give me a blue-water passagemaker and it would be next to useless in the Finger Lakes - though we have Tayana 37s and Babas on the lake that are lovely but outmatched for light airs. I probably tack more in a day than some passagemakers do in a month. I need a boat that points well (lakes are long and narrow with N/S aligmnent and a prevailing West wind), is fast, can handle chop more than long waves and will allow tucking into anchorages or marinas that have a five foot depth. Also, if I can't be underway in 15 minutes for a three hour daysail it's probably going to just be a tight cottage.

Happily, a few canals and we're on the Great Lakes and a few additional locks takes us out into the Atlantic for some coastal hops.

The good news is there are LOADS of capable designs from the 80's that can be had. I may never work my way up to the new designs. ;-) Pearson Triton #1 (1959) is at the lower end of Cayuga Lake and a good design that adapts well to sweetwater. That was the original "family cruiser" in fiberglass. Now it is tiny.
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Last edited by Delirious; 07-22-2013 at 11:41 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-23-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

To Delirious
First of all I would like to make it quite clear that this is all about a family cruiser for long distance voyage, e.i. Scandinavia/Europe to the West Indian Islands. As you know, gentlemen do not sail towards the winds. However, If the occasion should arise, as an act of good, it is the captain that have the full responsibility. We are certainly talking about ocean crossing. This voyage should be done in some style and comfort, and the woman aboard would definitely demand door to the head. We can establish that Finger Lakes is not the place alone this yacht should be designed for. However 9 knots half wind isnít all that bad, without modernized hull under the waterline. It should be fun to sail everywhere. There is never a problem to sail away, they usually starts when heading back home. Big circle route from Florida to north or south of British Islands. This suggests that she is to be built in a way, so that she actually can take on some wind. Some, even over the bow. And in extreme cases handle a breaker. I do think, you by now, have realized that Iím talking about an all-weather boat and big open sea, where survival is the most important. That is why Iím desperately looking for a yacht with a decent keel-weight ratio. The southern parts of the Baltic Sea have a particularly choppy sea. Many Big ships have learned that the hard way. I believe the same goes for the Great Lakes.
Tacking with this boat isnít a problem, since the Jib is the only sail you have to bother about.
So how many of these old-timers have blister-damages, leakage in deck and so forth, frost damage due to water in distance material, or just weak distance material. Cracked up interior, due to violent hobby-horsing, and insufficient hull strength.
What Iím trying to get across to you, is the following question: Is todayís yachts the optimal work tool for extended cruising, family style.
What is wrong with aluminum composite as a building material?
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Old 07-23-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Groan:
What does "aluminum composite" mean to you?

Here is a boat of mine that I would call "aluminum composite" but I'm not sure what you mean.
This a modern family cruising boat owned by a very experienced cruising family. It is a thoroughly modern yacht in every respect, very fast, easy to sail and very capable.
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  #26  
Old 07-23-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

To OP- take a look at the Onvi, Boreals and L+M boats if you're into Alu. Very different then the old C.A. boats but actually used for the purpose you describe with great success. I'm new to my boat but have done some long hops and have seen some weather and am extremely pleased ( outbound 46). Steve at PSC has the molds/tooling for the 40 and 44 and it hits all your requirements as well but in glass. There is a Valiant 50 still in the shed in Texas that may please you as well. Rustler still makes classic looking boats but they do blue water without a hiccough. Morris will still make you an Able 50 which may appeal to you as well. Problem is they all will sail circles around an C.A. boat and have moved on from the Norwegian lifeboat design look.
Problem is the market for the boat you describe is very small. You may get a small semi production run vessel or have the pleasure of hiring Bob and having done your way but the right way. Think you and Bob should talk . If you look at his portfolio he designs great looking boats that are purpose built.
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Old 07-23-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Out:
I'm not sure the Groaner is the right client for me. He talks in vague generalities but he seems to have his mind made up. I want clients that are open to my ideas and respect my ideas. Building a custom boat has to be fun for everyone. I'm happy to argue about the color of the seat cushions but I don't want to argue about the design of the keel or the rudder or the rig or the hull shape. In fact, I don't give a rat's patootey about cushion colors. I'm at the point in my career where from now on out each boat I do has to reflect what I have learned over the years. I'm pretty sure the Groaner is not ready to deal with my "idiosyncrasies",
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  #28  
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

Sorry. Thought I could get him to see the light
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  #29  
Old 07-23-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

The thing which has ceased to amaze me about the internet is that there are so many people on it that if you sit around and watch long enough you see the same types of people show up over and over again. Grona is a type who has been here many times before. He longs for the past, and is certain that the past must be a shining light to the future. His post strikes me as a seeking validation for a set of ideas which are valid if taken in context, but which are being presented out of context.

The reality is that there are lots of designs for boats like Grona is looking for. Their drawings are readily available in museums. The materials still exist to build these designs as they were conceived, or in the hands of a decent design-build yard, and with the guidance of a knowledgeable designer, they can be adapted for other materials. But no matter what material they are constructed in, boats like these will not be unexpensive and certainly will not be within the budget of an average family. Nor will the meet the needs iof an average family, especially an average family that happened to have the the time and money to cross oceans.

As others have suggested, Grona it would really make sense for you to take some time and learn about how the science behind yacht design has evolved in the past 30 years. There are some excesses which has produced boats which would be of little interest and use to you. But there has also been a better understanding of how to build stronger, more seaworthy, more comfortable, faster, and more durable designs than had been available when I started sailing in the early 1960's let alone in the days of wood and iron boats.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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  #30  
Old 07-23-2013
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Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world

I like this color for cushion covers.Easier to keep clean.
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