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-   -   Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/101607-open-letter-yachtdesigners-world.html)

Grona hisse 07-21-2013 06:01 AM

Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world
 
What happened to the good family boat?
An open letter to the yacht designers of the world.

I have for some time been looking for a new boat. I'm looking for a normal boat for normal use.
The season is in my case from April to October. This means that I will encounter different types of weather and temperatures. The last gives the hull shall be insulated in any form, both the heat and coold.

Where is the family boat that can take on some weather, and with a nice type of hoby-hoursing. Was fairly quick, had a good check properties, and possible could hold the course. Was balanced so that you could be able to leave the rudder a short time. Family boats had in the old days a keel worth the name.

In Sweden we can’t compete today in mass production of boats, we have to small volumes, and the boats will be too expensive. Thus, there is also no second-hand market to speak of. There are a lot of good boats that leaks in different places, boats that do not have a shower or even a door to close to the toilet, etc. But that's not what I'm after.

One may quietly wonder why it has become in this way. I firmly believe that we can be as good if we want, by offering a product sailor in common wants. I mean in an international perspective. All sailing does not occur in the archipelagos, and when they do it, there is a lot longer between islands. It is a lot more winds abroad than in the Swedish archipelago. It's about creating a new niche in the boating world, FLD (Family Sailors for the long haul).

It is primarily for a comfortable and safe boat, a boat that you can rely on in most weather.
It's about a boat, in which all crew members can feel secure.
Boats where teak deck has been replaced by Treadmaster mat, non-slip and not leaking, saves weight and less costly.

It is not about a boat that will be planing out on the water at 20 knots with water spouting up to the spreader of the mast, which require a full-fledged professional to helm and handle. After the third broach that transforms the cabin into a cement mixer, the family crew patterns of in pure protest. Then it doesn’t matter how many boating magazines that are placed in strategic locations.

To chart an archipelago may sometimes result in lack of time and resources to forget a rock, which is not good for the modern boat, the fin keel has a tendency to unfold itself as a center table. Half of today's yachts should pay higher premiums for the benefit of the second half, so maybe we can get rid of the worst variants, of keel fastenings and drawing/building instructions. This way of thinking can of course be adaptable to whale collisions and so forth.
The modern boats have a tendency to have instable heading, to say the least. It may be that they are fast downwind, But tacking away from a lee shore, these huge sterns aren’t designed for it. As the swim platform they work beautifully. But it was the sailboat that was to be debated.
The pitching hard one to two reefs. The skipper thinks he's out on a real adventure, but it's not so bad, the water is still plain, not striped. May God help him, when the wind increases? All weight high up must be counteracted by a keel weight of 25-35 times depending on type of boat.
The modern boat has a keel weight of at best 30 percent, why this? Everyone knows that a boat with 43-47 percent keel weight moves a lot better in open water. In addition to a restful time for the crew, the boat will withstand more weather.

If I suggest a Colin Archer design, so all laughs. Everybody knows that it is heavy and slow.
9 knots with a CA40 is not so bad?

When Colin Archer designed his yachts they had to be seaworthy and able to withstand foul weather. Everyone knows that he succeeded. Canoe stern was because it would break the breaking wave from behind and divide all the water. Today's boats are pushed down into the next wave, where the risk is imminent that the bow diving, boat tossed around, and the lack of keel allows the rig falls apart.
I have personally witnessed the North Atlantic Ocean and the English Channel during full scale gale conditions; it is not a pretty sight. We can conclude that it isn’t the waves that are the problems. It is the breakers that cause the problems. Tens of tons of water that roars across the deck, and treat the boat like a glove. If boat is modern, it has a point, as the water flows out through the rear deck (kitchen door).

Thus, we can state that we should not compromise with Colin Archer boat's strength. But the requirement that the weight will be reduced by 50 percent for the hull and deck remains, in favor of the keel weight. This could be achieved through Aluminum Composite. This is by year 2013, not any novelty.

Personally, I am absolutely convinced that it is possible.
Since Colin Archer designed his boats a lot of water has passed under our keels, but he was back in those days a genius. The development had for centuries stood still, before he started.
It is therefore important to modernize Colin Archer underwater body, so that the boat meets the water line length. I feel that a number of racing rules have made today's boats into toys. I need a tool created.

Colin Archer boats are safe but unfortunately unduly wet, why freeboard should be raised a foot or two . Otherwise it will be out of a demand from the foreign customers.
Today's front underwater body with its large flat surface allows the boat to pound into the waves, the stop becomes so powerful, that the mast dancing hula-hula on the deck even though the rig is correctly applied. Will the rig cope with this?
We start with the features of stem in the water body, shared lateral plane, skeg that protects and supports the helm. Sure, this means that the draft will increase. Clearly the boat will be able to dry out safely, able to stand on the keel. The keel is provided with a wing, not at the bottom. She should be able to heave to in a safe manner.

The rudder is moved in under the boat, this must be balanced. Everyone in the crew should be able to steer the boat.
The rudder shall be so designed that it helps autopilot and wind vane.
Cutter rigged ketch it sounds the best sense for the family, there will be more but smaller sails to handle. Reefing is done by the main simply taken down. The remained staysail and mizzen holding a bit up in the wind register. So when apart from the jib, all sails to be "self-tailing".
Modern boats are usually equipped with hydraulic winches for hauling and windlass, this might fit if you are looking gaff rig, except that it generates greater sail area further down. Two simultaneous hoisting winches great, same for the mizzen. The masts consist no longer barked spruce. We use aluminum profiles. The masts will stand on the deck, it's a safety issue. Supported underneath with a solid steel profile.

As most understand that I strive for a comfortable holiday boat for longer voyages, I have additional comments about the decor. One toilet and one shower sufficient aboard a boat. This also applies to charter boats. They should be placed in stamping center. It is absolutely forbidden to put the toilet seat in such a way that the user should not be able to relax, nor shall sea and wind be able to cause the contents of the bowl into the foul weather gear trousers. Separate shower cubicle is preferable. Given the new Swedish and foreign future rules should sleet and septic tank to be adapted to the crew 'needs, be generous in volumes.
The new boats double berths has nothing to do with good sleep or safety. Proper sea bunks is preferable to sea, I mean really functioning. Including fastening for security belt. The galley will be a place where you can get support, so it is workable, including safety harnesses. It should certainly not be of the kind type a long ship worktop.
The fabric could be Perstorp, considerably cheaper than mahogany and teak, also provides a bright interior. Provided with a beautiful strip materials, it may be just as well. Easy to keep clean.
The deck is fitted out with light prisms, so that the interior remains bright.
Then stowage facilities should be provided for private things, there must be drawers, absolutely no gaps under the mattress, where someone sleeps.
Since I do not believe in a design where you place everything in the stern, engine, crew, anchors, ropes and 2 cubic utility gadgets, I prefer the cockpit in the middle. Under that I have placed the engine and generator / hydraulic pump, all in a space that makes service easy.
There should be a separate tank to fuel the kitchen and heater.

On the hard, and winterization give my variation of the boat, a keel that makes the handling on the dry easy. My boat has such a powerful hull not struts push the grp hull during severe weather. This is especially true if you want to take yacht up on the hard with the mast on.

It is my hope that the international yacht industry should learn from mistakes and produce the boats that people want. Where the family can get a consensus on the choice of boat.
A boat with one steering wheel thanks.
Sincerely

deniseO30 07-21-2013 08:41 AM

Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world
 
Doesn't sound like a boat I'd want. (If I can understand the rant) All that aside, welcome to Sailnet!

Jeff_H 07-21-2013 09:27 AM

Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world
 
As I read you rant, I generally understand you objectives, and find myself generally in agreement with many of them. But when I look at your solutions and critiques, they come closer to reflecting out of date dogma rather than reflecting the science behind yacht design.

Where we agree is that the smaller boats that I see coming out of Europe seem to be moving in the direction of open class style race boats, and I don't see that as a positive. But I have sailed traditional designs for much of my life, and where.we are at odds is that these traditional are not all that easy to sail, are wildly expensive to build and maintain, offer rolly motion,pitch more violently(there is no such thing as a good, hobby-horsing motion), and offer no real advantages in terms of safety or sailing ability as compared to a moderately conservative modern design.

Respectfully,
Jeff

manatee 07-21-2013 03:42 PM

Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world
 
George Buehler Yacht Design Home Page
Buehler's boat designs and building methods are derived from the workboats of America's Pacific Northwest coast. They're built like tanks (one took no harm from being hit by a seaplane), designed for comfortable cruising, and have been built & sailed all around the world. His 'Backyard Boatbuilding' is a good read, with plans for quite a few boats included.

Parker Marine
Parker's boats are based on the sharpie-type workboats of America's Northeast coast. They are shoal-draft, centerboard or leeboard, flat-bottomed (most modern ones are slightly arc-bottomed), fast, and relatively easy & cheap to build.

Parker's 'The Sharpie Book' has a history of the type, building info, photos and plans. His 'The New Cold-Molded Boatbuilding' has construction details, photos and drawings on making a strong, light boat.

JonEisberg 07-21-2013 07:09 PM

Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world
 
And, I'll bet you want it to be really, REALLY 'affordable' as well, right? :-)

First off, your letter should be addressed to the yacht MANUFACTURERS of the world... And, I'm sure they would assure you, that there is precious little market for such a boat in today's world, certainly not enough to warrant production on a large scale... Modern Production boat building has become all about Interior Accomodation, and very little else... No way could the current American New Boat market, for example, be convinced to embrace a Colin Archer-style design, but with more freeboard...

Like Jeff H, I'm in agreement with much of what you desire... But the reality is that precious few families want such boats today, even a contemporary builder of designs of the sort of 'moderation' you seem to be getting at - Pacific Seacraft - is barely afloat today, their primary business is refitting their older boats, virtually NO ONE wants to buy a brand new Crealock 37, anymore... Now, the Pacific Seacraft 38 that Bob Perry drew up a few years ago, I thought that was a pretty cool boat that might be emblematic of the sort of niche you're talking about, I'd love to see PSC try to put that boat into production... We shall see...

Sneak preview of new Pacific Seacraft 38.5 - Cruising Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

http://sailmagazine.com/images/archi...cseaP-38-2.jpg

And besides, the world is already full of stuff close to what you seem to want - they fall under the general heading of 'Good Old Boats'...

Oh, and good luck convincing today's sailing public that deck prisms will be sufficient to allow light below... Haven't you heard, folks today want freakin' Picture Windows cut into their topsides, for chrissakes... :-)

http://www.sail-world.com/photos_201...545_015v11.jpg

LinekinBayCD 07-21-2013 08:45 PM

Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world
 
I chartered 33' & 35' Scanmars circa 1980 when they were being imported to the US from Sweden. I thought they were great sailing boats with well laid out interiors for a family with several kids or two couples. Fractional rigs, moderate fin keels, skeg rudders all well balanced.

bobperry 07-21-2013 09:04 PM

Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world
 
Will design for food.

tdw 07-21-2013 09:58 PM

Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobperry (Post 1062682)
Will design for food.

Oh come on. What would you know ? :p :p :p

JulieMor 07-21-2013 10:09 PM

Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JonEisberg (Post 1062632)
Modern Production boat building has become all about Interior Accomodation, and very little else...

Don't forget wide spacious cockpits with little to grab on to when the boat heels in a puff and sends the occupants flying across the expansive void.

Classic30 07-22-2013 02:49 AM

Re: Open letter to yachtdesigners of the world
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JulieMor (Post 1062710)
Don't forget wide spacious cockpits with little to grab on to when the boat heels in a puff and sends the occupants flying across the expansive void.

WHAT?!? You mean those marina queens are intended to be SAILED??? Surely you're joking.. they'd spill their champagne. ;) :)

Now that bow-thrusters are de rigeur, I guess the next technology we'll see will be active stabilisers (to stop the boat heeling, of course...) :rolleyes:


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