CS 36 T vs. CS 36 Merlin - SailNet Community

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  #1  
Old 07-28-2013
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CS 36 T vs. CS 36 Merlin

The CS 36 Traditional (Raymond Wall designed) and the CS 36 Merlin (Tony Castro designed) sailboats share the CS name and at a casual glance have some familial resemblance. However they are two very different vessels.

I am familiar with both and the differences / compromises of each design. The CS36T weighs considerably more then the Merlin and one would think that the Merlin would be a faster boat.
However looking at the "PHRF-NE BASE HANDICAPS 22 July 2013"
the ratings suggest that the CS36T is rated as a faster boat then the Merlin.

CS 36 123
CS 36 MERLIN WK 138
CS 36 SD 132

Racing presently in a large J 105 fleet, so my interest is simply if the CS 36 Traditional is a faster cruiser then the Merlin.
Any comments? Are the ratings values wrong in the printed data?
Just interested if the older design is a faster boat since it weighs 3000 lbs. more! 13,000 (Merlin) vs. 16,000 lbs (CS36T)
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Old 07-29-2013
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Re: CS 36 T vs. CS 36 Merlin

I had a 36T for several years. Solid boat but I doubt it's faster than the Merlin if my 40 is indication.
JIm
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Old 07-29-2013
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Re: CS 36 T vs. CS 36 Merlin

Hi Jim,

The CS 40 with longer W/L and more sail area is a faster boat then a CS36M.

The same ratings table lists the CS 40 PHRF ratings:

CS 40 99
CS 40 SM 108
CS 40 TM 93
CS 40 WK 105

There was a CS40 named "Freestyle" finished the Lake Ontario 300 a couple of weeks ago, "Freestyle" rated 78 phrf/ 1.1815 in that race.

A CS 36M "Maroca II" rated 159, and a CS36 "Mythos" rated 146 maybe the 159 rating is for white sail only?

Just trying to figure out the actual ratings difference between the T & M CS 36.
Thanks

Last edited by fast2tack; 07-29-2013 at 08:52 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-29-2013
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Re: CS 36 T vs. CS 36 Merlin

Hi Jim,

Just curious if the CS 36T you previously owned was a deep draft 6'3" or the shoal draft. Any input on the difference in sailing performance (other then speed) between your CS36T and CS 40?

I am particularily interested in how the two boats sailed into and with waves of varying size (and angles)

Sailed beside a CS36M yesterday (on a CS36T deep draft) in 15-18 knt winds and a 2.5-3 ft sea. I noticed a difference in the way the two boats handled the waves and the effect the waves had on the hulls.

Any input from the Sailnet community?

Maine Sail?
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Old 07-29-2013
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Re: CS 36 T vs. CS 36 Merlin

I've had my Merlin for 3 years. My rating in the PNW is 147. (4C55) (My genoa is a bit small due to the roller furling)

We're generally a light air venue.

Never sailed with a 36T.. I would suspect that the 36T is faster upwind than me and that the Merlin is faster downwind, as the Merlin's bottom is flatter..

I've wondered why my handicap is as high as it is.. I suspect it's because, from what I can tell, very few Merlins are raced, and those that are raced are probably not that good at it (including myself).. which will affect the PHRF rating over time..

How's that for speculation?

At any rate, my Merlin is a joy to sail. Had a 6 hour spinnaker run yesterday, hitting a solid 8 knots for the last hour, with wind in the mid-teens.



David
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Old 07-29-2013
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Re: CS 36 T vs. CS 36 Merlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by fast2tack View Post
Any comments? Are the ratings values wrong in the printed data?
Just interested if the older design is a faster boat since it weighs 3000 lbs. more! 13,000 (Merlin) vs. 16,000 lbs (CS36T)

I think the design weight of the Merlin was 13500 but I don't think any came out of the Brampton factory weighing that. Most were much more. Mine ( Hull number 36, 1988) comes in close to 16,000 lbs.
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Old 07-29-2013
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Re: CS 36 T vs. CS 36 Merlin

Something else to consider when thinking about speed when cruising is that you are likely to have the same weight of crap in either boat so the performance penalty will be much worse on the lighter boat. I don't really know the Merlin but quite like the 36T, almost bought one once. I had a concern about the lack of a proper bilge. Any water inside the boat, and there will be water, will roll up into various lockers when you heel or even roll.
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Re: CS 36 T vs. CS 36 Merlin

The shallow bilge on my Merlin is annoying and very hard to keep dry
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Re: CS 36 T vs. CS 36 Merlin

My 36t was a deep draft. It really didn't move well til we had 15kts of breeze. That said when it powered up it was a freight train. Easily held course and well balanced. Likes the rail down. Was hard to sail inside of 35 degrees. The trac on the gps would be higher if you cracked off a bit.
The 40 is a totally different animal. Sails well starting at 8 kts of breeze and flys over 14. Likes to sail fairly flat. We start reefing at 18. Points higher and drives thru seas much better than the 36. Off the wind w/ the chute, "hasta la vista baby" we see 8 - 10 boat speed. This is on a loaded up cruiser w/ 300' of 3/8 chain, 45 lb cqr and a 10' RIB on davits.
Sails more like a race boat and you have to stay focused or you will be all over the place. Being a retired avid racer it's a blast to drive.
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Last edited by jimrafford; 07-29-2013 at 07:16 PM.
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Re: CS 36 T vs. CS 36 Merlin

Interesting...

The Merlin is fast in light air, as long as she has a bit of heel... Won't point particularly high in the light stuff (Or at least I haven't figured out how yet)..

Vague catchprases follow that seem right:

"Tracks like she's on rails.."
"Stable.."
"powerful..."
"Digs her shoulder in and just goes"

Sure would like to sail a 40 some time... Turbo diesel makes me nervous, though..
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