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  #121  
Old 07-31-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
My secretary did some work for me regarding the Labor Law in CA. I can file three complaints against the company
• Violation (for not providing sufficient safety and welfare of the employee, water, etc.)
• Retaliation (for threatening after you called CG)
• Wage (for not reimbursing the expenses to go home)

The boat is in the name of the corporation, was used as a tax write off, we were the employee of the company and were protected by the labor law of California. All three complaints are well documented in our correspondings (emails), video, pictures, and voice recordings. If DOL is sided on our case, the legal action will follow.
Don't bother with claiming expenses.

What about suing'em for unlawful imprisonment ("confined to berths")?

Or how about assault with a deadly weapon (the winch handle incident)?

Heck, might as well go whole-hog for attempted murder
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  #122  
Old 07-31-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

I wouldn't sue...lest you want yourself plastered all over Sailing Anarchy as the latest person to get legal. Look at Podmajersky (sic). The guy was clearly in the right, but became a sailing pariah. Got a Rule 69 hearing against him and a 1 year ban for what (I believe) was another dude behaving unethically.

You may say "who cares, i'm going forward legally and will take this guy down"...but think about how many offers to go as crew you'll get if you are known as the guy that sues a boat owner (even if you are in the right). If you love crewing and ocean passages, expect that well to dry up pretty quickly. Just as the net was able to figure out it was Aquarius, they'll be able to figure out the guy that sued.

You survived and have one hell of a story to tell. Chalk it up to life lessons and great stories to tell at the yacht club after the race is over.

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago...ent?oid=912184
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Last edited by night0wl; 07-31-2013 at 08:48 PM.
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  #123  
Old 07-31-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Nightowl, it is a good advise and has wisdom. I will certainly take heart to consider this calmly and logically. Thanks.
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  #124  
Old 07-31-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
Why Bother? You survived. Your decision to get on the boat. Poor decision making on the journey by you and Jake. Having an incompetent skipper at the wheel flying a kite at nite? After the 2nd nite you and jake didn't get it? Could of de escalated the situation early by heaving to, getting a good night rest, spliting up the crew so You and j\Jake were on different watches, one competent crew one incompetent crew...so all does not break loose and you are repeatedly woken up. Lot's of weird thing happening on your trip, and you the experienced crew/delivery/business/adventure kinda guy.

If you decide to sue, make sure you list that on your next crew qualification CV. Sure be get lots of crew offers after that.
Yeah, the irony is pretty thick, alright...

"Frivolous lawsuits" are only bad, sometimes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
IT is not an easy decision. I think Bounty situation is quiet different from Rule 62. Bounty LLC is an organization and Rule 62 is a privately Mom and pap operating pleasure boat.

If I perished in the sea, I don't want my wife to sue my sailor buddy who was kind enough to give me a ride regardless what happened. **** happens, we must bear all the risk on our own shoulder. However My legal council Schumberg and Goldstein would think differently.

Likewise, if have need a crew and **** happens, he died. I don't want his family go after my nest egg. A few weeks ago, I indeed post a thread regarding how to protect ourselves from frivolous lawsuit. Even if you win, you will lose big time.

If Laura's family wins the case, no owner will want to take on any crews and no captain can afford to hire crew or vise verse.
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  #125  
Old 07-31-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Quote:

Originally Posted by JonEisberg

Hmmm, change of heart, eh?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody died on this voyage, right?
No, not at all.

In the Rule 62' case, there was no evidence to mistreatment from the captain. No survivors has spoken since the tragedy. In this case, there were plenty of evidence at hand.

Not sure what is your problem?
I don't have a "problem", I'm simply gobsmacked by the irony of and inconsistency of your point of view...

You don't believe there is legitimacy to a lawsuit against the owner of RULE 62, whose incompetence or negligent behavior led directly to the DEATH of one of his crew, and yet you feel you are entitled to sue this guy because he simply "mistreated" you, and generally made your life unpleasant for a couple of weeks? Seriously?

Man up, accept the fact that it was your poor judgment that put you on that boat in the first place, chalk it up to another lesson learned, and move on...

Just my opinion, take it or leave it...
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Last edited by JonEisberg; 07-31-2013 at 10:01 PM.
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  #126  
Old 07-31-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Damn Dawg, that's a heck of a story, I feel bad for encouraging you to go in your previous post. I think after about the second run in with Harry this scenario would have been running through my mind.
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  #127  
Old 07-31-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
I agree. Most of this organizations are a money making machine in the good old boy club. They charge the participant $3500 plus all other fees. The sale of merchandise and media coverage etc are lots of profits.
I can't speak for the way the TransPac is organised (although from hearing my Dad speak of his race a few years back, I got the impression it was properly and professionally organised and run) but I do think your ignorance is showing.

FYI, major race organisation typically requires large amounts of money to be forked out in insurance, professional event management, advertising and venue hire. Someone else has to get the merchandise made in the first place - and pay for it - whether it is sold or not, and the media must be informed and corralled each step of the way (more $$$) or the whole event descends into chaos. If you look into it you'll find the race entry fees only just cover the insurance and operations side, which typically runs 24hrs from before that race start to after the finish. The bigger (and longer) the race the higher the cost for things like charter of a radio-relay vessel or GPS tracking of each competitor.

From my limited personal experience with yacht race organisation in this part of the world, I have yet to come across any event that was a "money making machine". Indeed, without the tireless (and unrewarded by hangers-on like yourself) efforts of countless volunteers working long hours for no money at all - simply the love of the sport - and the financial backing of one or more major sponsors ALL major yachting events in the world today (even the current America's Cup event, FWIW) would run at a loss and there'd be no race for you to compete in!

"Profits"? "Good old boy club"?? I don't think so..
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Last edited by Classic30; 07-31-2013 at 10:32 PM.
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  #128  
Old 07-31-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Given that were probably not a paid, professional seaman under the Jones Act, it isn't likely that you have ANY course of action. You were a volunteer crew. Period. You get what you get...caveat emptor applies. The fact that you are exploring legal remedies as crew in a sailboat race sets off my red flags.

Personally, something tells me that your behavior contributed to this nightmare. Yeah, the owner was an arseh@le, but rather than work with him, you chose to enlist the willing crew to overturn his authority, call the USCG and generally behave...badly.

I've done 6 crossings and two races as skipper. It isn't easy. There will be conflicts, as one would expect when stuffing 5-15 people into a restricted space for 8-15 days. I don't sail with screamers, so I would have opted out at the first sign. But really, who goes to sea with someone that they've never met?

I take great pride in taking care of my crews. But if you grabbed my Satphone and called the USCG because you didn't like one of my decisions...I'd have you arrested when your feet hit solid ground.
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Last edited by SalNichols94804; 07-31-2013 at 11:45 PM.
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  #129  
Old 08-01-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by night0wl View Post
I wouldn't sue...lest you want yourself plastered all over Sailing Anarchy as the latest person to get legal. Look at Podmajersky (sic). The guy was clearly in the right, but became a sailing pariah. Got a Rule 69 hearing against him and a 1 year ban for what (I believe) was another dude behaving unethically.
Here's the link and an excerpt.

The name John Podmajersky was forever registered into the annals of sailing douchebaggery after the Chicago developer sued the Chicago Yacht Club to get his name on a trophy, and his cancer-battling long time crew for a million bucks. That long and sordid story is long over and “Pod” is back to quietly enjoying sailboat racing, but he’ll always be remembered for bringing lawyers and the courts somewhere they never, ever should have been allowed: Into a disagreement between two sailors over amateur sailboat racing.

That aside, and to the OP:

Yes, I found the story to be interesting. At least, initially. Though, imho, you seem hardly without fault. While I do get that crewing for the transpac is/was the main draw I was admittedly surprised in light of your introduction, that you chose to go.

While it certainly sounds like this guy was an insufferable bastard, I do wonder what part you played wrt the seemingly ongoing explosive dynamics. Bc, from your description, it certainly sounds like your role in this particular fiasco was not small.

For example, the way you repeatedly harp about his ESL and him not behaving to your standards? He's been in the country for 16 years, and you expect him to suddenly, what? Sound like someone who grew up speaking US english? Assimilate to your customs?

Aside: You do understand that cultures vary widely? Even within and between communities in the good ole USofA. Moreover, you really should educate yourself on linguistics. Just sayin...

But, I digress.

From your description, it sounded like you had absolutely no respect for this man from the get go. If this is the case, he very likely picked up on that. Which, of course, not surprisingly, exacerbated the situation.

That you are now considering suing this guy is very sad. You chose to go. Even with all of the up-front warning signs. I do not know about other readers but I certainly would not risk even having you aboard my boat, much less crewing on even a short jaunt.

And last but not least. There's this bit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Buying my own boat will not satisfy my craving for off shore sailing. If I have my own boat, I will end up putting around the boat at the dock all day, week and year, just like most of you folks.
I think the idiom, , "beggars can't be choosers" is apropos here. Esp considering that you seem intent on crewing on other people's boats. People whom, by your very words above, you seem to disrespect their choice to actually own/work and pay for the upkeep of their boats. And yet, you want a free ride? Please.

That said, transpac is a great race. Quite a few of my dockmates have not only crewed but also done the singlehanded transpac. The people who run it and sail it, love sailing.

That you characterize them as a money making machine... that you would even remotely consider going after as a result of your poor choice, leaves me wondering why you even wanted to crew in this race in the first place.
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  #130  
Old 08-01-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Transpac????????????


Puleazzzzze. San Fran to hawaii is 2,000nms. Trans Pacific from there to the other side of the Pacifc (ie a trans pac) is 6,000 nms.


I agree with RockD it must have sucked bit time. Dunno how it can work out better... unless only taking my own boat.

And being able to sail my own boat without crew.


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