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  #191  
Old 08-02-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Well, this has all been an interesting tale. What I find most curious is that Jake had a film crew at the departure and also at the arrival? Maybe I read that wrong. What was the purpose of that film crew? ...to film a pilot for a reality TV show?

I would just like to know "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would say. I think my inital impression of this story might have been wrong.
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  #192  
Old 08-02-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Wow, 20 pages. I'll jump in though I'm sure I'll regret doing so.

1st, while I know sometimes we all make typos when posting to the Internet, RD is not the most articulate person when he posts; not grammatically or in syntax, so for him to denigrate the owner over his ESL is pretty petty.

2nd, The TRANSPAC is heavy duty. Not a day sail. Granted it's mostly downhill but that's not easy helming. I can teach someone to drive a boat upwind pretty easily. Steering downwind is a lot trickier even if it's not a turbo sled boat. And "Navigator" may just be a label. Because in any distance race there is a huge difference between being the Navigator and actually NAVIGATING.

3rd. RD admits he hasn't flown a chute. And was trying to trim it by looking at the Masthead vane? WTF? Every boat I've been on the chute was trimmed by standing where you could SEE the freaking curl on the chute.
RD reminds me of people I've "worked" with that have held multiple positions and titles.... and couldn't do any of them halfway competently but they have this wonderful looking resume and keep getting picked for other jobs! I can hear it now "I was NAVIGATOR" on a TRANSPAC boat.

I have no idea what really occurred on this trip. I just think that it was a setup to fail before RD even flew out there. Much as I would have liked to do the TRANSPAC I would not have agreed to get on that particular boat w/ those particular people knowing the lack of experience and preparation.

To RD I'll say this. While you seem all gung ho to fly off and sail in exotic places and rack up offshore miles (as am I!) you might better be served by spending some time sailing on a local race boat and getting more experience. Your own posts in this thread alone make me question whether I would want to be offshore w/ you on any boat. That is just an observation and not piling on in response to others who seem to have issue w/ you. I haven't read many of your other posts from other threads and only pop in here a few times a month or so. Just look at my post count!
In the future I would suggest doing "due diligence" and assess the boat/owner as to whether they would be a good fit for you.
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Last edited by sailordave; 08-02-2013 at 11:31 AM. Reason: excess verbiage/typo
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  #193  
Old 08-02-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
I could send you my budget and spreadsheet, but I'll summarize:

Entry, insurance = 3.5k
SSB + modem = 3k
Boat mods = 7k
New rudder= 19k installed
E rudder= 2.5k
Spinnakers=15k
Blast reacher 1.5k used and modified
Food/consumables for 5 for 3wks= 2.2k
Raft rental=.8k round trip
Satphone installed with ext ant=1.5k
Satphone minutes=.5k
All of the crew dinners parties etc.=.8k

Craploads of other nuts and bolts stuff.

Delivery costs=13k

If you get dsq'd, these are sunk costs. The only carry away are the big ticket items which you'll never recover in resale. Essentially, some PhD punk with no financial skin in the game will have gotten you tossed, flushing two years worth of work and nearly 60k.

Trust me, it was the most expensive vacation of my life. If I go in '14, I think I can do it for 20k.

Note that this hasn't addressed the 15k in repairs since I brought the boat home.
Thanks for the information. It is appreciated.
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  #194  
Old 08-02-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
There is SO MUCH WRONG here that I'm not even sure where to start. To begin with, you showed little to no respect for the skipper before you even left the dock. Your petulance over having to buy your own drinks is telling.
You signed on as a NAVIGATOR on a downwind race having NEVER BEFORE flown a kite? Just exactly what were your qualifications to sign on as navigator to begin with?
Then you two twits, having decided that things were not as you wanted started calling the RC, USCG, the U.S. f$$king Navy, and god knows who else on the sly to whine?
You signed up for a trip to Oahu on an Aloha Division boat, and you were picked by and large because neither of you have or had the experience or skill to get on board a real race boat. You should have accepted your lot in life and delt with it, s-ingtfu in the process, or never left the dock.
A simple look up at the crew list will tell EVERYONE who you are. Personally, you couldn't get on a boat that I run if you pointed a gun at me. I suspect there are a lot of other owners that feel the same.
Finally son, you are dead wrong about the AP. on a crewed boat, it's a DSQ/DNF. At the moment that YOU forced that issue, YOU flushed the owners race investment, whatever it might have been, down the drain. If you had done that to me, on my boat, it would have cost me $55K, and I can guarantee you that you would have been tie wrapped to the lifelines for the duration of the passage.

Having completely read the 20 pages that there are now, and followed links to other sites / references etc..
I'm going to say that this post nails it on the head.
I'd like to see the other side of the story, but really just don't care anymore.
chef2sail, jimgo and Lateral like this.
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  #195  
Old 08-02-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

I don't think this thread turned out the way RD thought it would.
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  #196  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
I could send you my budget and spreadsheet, but I'll summarize:

Entry, insurance = 3.5k
SSB + modem = 3k
Boat mods = 7k
New rudder= 19k installed
E rudder= 2.5k
Spinnakers=15k
Blast reacher 1.5k used and modified
Food/consumables for 5 for 3wks= 2.2k
Raft rental=.8k round trip
Satphone installed with ext ant=1.5k
Satphone minutes=.5k
All of the crew dinners parties etc.=.8k

Craploads of other nuts and bolts stuff.

Delivery costs=13k

If you get dsq'd, these are sunk costs. The only carry away are the big ticket items which you'll never recover in resale. Essentially, some PhD punk with no financial skin in the game will have gotten you tossed, flushing two years worth of work and nearly 60k.

Trust me, it was the most expensive vacation of my life. If I go in '14, I think I can do it for 20k.

Note that this hasn't addressed the 15k in repairs since I brought the boat home.
I agree with a lot of what you have written, but counting all of these as one time sunk costs is a bit much. You sound as if you bought the boat to do one race with the plan to sell it after. That's your choice, but nobody ever expects to make money on a boat like it is an investment, and writing all of this off up front ignores that a lot of it (rudder, boat mods, sails, etc.) has a useful life that extends long past the first expenditure of money.
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  #197  
Old 08-02-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
2002 Jeanneau 43 footer DS on a Transpac Race.

Me - 1
Jake – 2
Harry – 3
Jane – 0
Sheryl – 0
==========================
3 people sailing a 43' boat with 2 liabilities on board. I would not have left the dock for a beercan race, much less tried to cross over 2k miles of open ocean.

Story would've been, I got to the boat, it was poorly prepped, crew was a joke, and I flew home. Oh well, I lost some money on the ticket, but I saved 20 days of vacation time and a little thing I call my life.
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  #198  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by juggleandhope View Post
A few points as we collaborate together to make sense of the experience RD has shared with the forum;

1. Filing with the California Department of Labor seems ethically required - that's how we protect other workers from employer abuse. To not do so is like leaving a bottle lying on a public staircase - even though you don't know who will fall or how bad they'll be injured, you know you've got to pick up the bottle. Another benefit of filing with the DOL would be that, after initial filing, the DOL pursues the case and eats the time and energy of the scary people, without much additional impetus from you. In other words, it has the beauty of a washing machine or setting a sail and won't require much of your life to keep it going. Any passage-making captain who would blackball you as crew for continuing to guarantee the safety of your fellow sailors (as you did in the original "mutiny") would be pledging an absurd allegiance to a ruling-class-solidarity over safety and decency and you'd be better off not on their boats.
The idea that RD would sue for redress as an aggrieved employee here is pretty offensive, and smacks of everything that is wrong with our legal system. And yes, I'm a lawyer.

It may be that a tort was committed (I'm thinking of the threat with the winch handle in particular), but I have a strong suspicion that there is a lot more to this story than just RD's side of it. Plenty of blame to go around.
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  #199  
Old 08-02-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
Smackers, he had an uncooperative crew from the drive from the airport. His best option was to leave the arse at the dock. I had someone try to make the rules on my boat last year. We had a talk.
Something tells me Captain Furious is not quite the same kind of skipper you are.

Look, if on a long, hot passage a crazy skipper and his crazy mate hide the water, tape the taps shut, and tell me I can't drink anything for several days...they will absolutely end up zip-tied to the mast. That's a threat to my life. And at that point, I could care less how much they put into the race.

That's the thing that tipped the story for me. Everything else was just dysfunctional BS.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-02-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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  #200  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Just got back to this thread after having been gone for a couple of days. Several posters have written the same things that I thought when I originally read the story. I've raced on over 60 boats in my life and have done a lot of long distance racing. Not all have been pleasant for sure but this story is the perfect storm of over inflated egos with unrealistic expectations combining for a near disaster.

1.Taking an 86 old woman on a long distance race. Who does that? My 89 year old mom is in pretty good shape but no way is she coming with us on any serious race much less a Transpac. You signed up for that? Huge red flag when looking at a boat to crew on. Not because she is an 86 year old woman, but because the skipper is o'k with that. It speaks volumes about the mindset of the skipper.

2. You have no experience with a spinnaker and you sign on for the Transpac? Can someone be that naive? The Transpac is usually all downwind, what do you think you will be doing with a 4 person crew? Epic fail on part of Rockdawg is assessing the situation.

3. Calling the Navy. Do you think they are going to take 2 able crew off a civilian boat and leave 2 people with an 86 year old woman to fend for themselves mid ocean? You are nuts if you even think that would happen. What is the captain of the Navy vessel to do. Take all the crew off and sink the vessel?

4. Obviously the owner is native Japanese, by your surname you appear to be ethnic Chinese or Korean. Any cultural bias there? RD's comment on lack of English language skills by the owner might be a clue.

5. Was the boat prepared for the RACE? First question RD should have asked was how many chutes on board. On a mostly downwind race of this magnitude I would think that you would have at least 3. Big red flag for anyone who has done any racing at all.

6. Why would you sign up for a long distance race with only 3 other able bodies. Flying the chute in the conditions that can be expected requires a watch of 4. One person on the guy, one on the main, one trimmer. and one helmsman. You rotate every hour. Do yourself a favor, go rent the movie Morning Light and you might get clue. Bottom line you needed 8 crew, all who had decent racing skills to be even close to being competitive or even to finish within the time limit.

Posting your story on the internet? Are you nuts? You signed up for a race without doing due diligence. You got into a bad situation and freaked out. The skipper freaked out. The best thing to do was to learn from the experience, thank your lucky stars that you didn't get hurt or worse, and move on. Blasting your skipper, no matter how incompetent, idiotic, abusive, and/or linguistically challenged he is, is just plain stupid. Legal action? Do you think any sane skipper would ever want you for crew after this?

RD, if you want to do any offshore racing as a crew in the future, delete your posts, sign up for some more local point to point races as crew, develop all around skills, and most importantly, learn from your mistakes. The owner that you sailed with is most likely learning from his or will on his return trip back to the mainland.

Last edited by Sanduskysailor; 08-02-2013 at 02:31 PM.
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