Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013 - Page 34 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1048Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #331  
Old 08-05-2013
DRFerron's Avatar
A mod and her dragon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,017
Thanks: 62
Thanked 147 Times in 132 Posts
Rep Power: 10
DRFerron is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic30 View Post
So.. someone who owns "the best cruising boat ever built" (and that's totally debateable, btw) is automatically also the Best Skipper ever??

Whatever floats your boat..
I read that as a reflection on his obvious humanitarianism in that situation on the beach, not on his skills as a skipper or what type of sailing he does. I think it was meant metaphorically.
Flybyknight and shadowraiths like this.
__________________
Donna


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catalina 30 TRFK

Contributing Editor
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
magazine

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Rock Hall Cruising Station

All things that are, are equally removed from being nothing. John Donne
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #332  
Old 08-05-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 261
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 3
ShoalFinder is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Sailing light on water for the sake of weight makes great sense for the vessel we're talking about. Fresh off their America's Cup victory they were hell bent for leather, or Hawaii- whichever comes first. This crew- they eat when the boat docks and sleep when they die, that hard salty lot does.

A crew that hardcore only needs two cups of water a day, because a gallon a day is for chumps who like to cook and wash their crack now and again. First they went to wet-wipes, but felt guilty after realizing they were forcing the captain to haul dead weight and so they started squeezing the moisture out of them dockside. Hell, the 100 year old lady doesn't need much water. You can skip her water ration on odd days because she'll forget about it anyway. At her age, she's on the way out any day now, so don't sweat it. The old broad sure can handle a spinnaker, though!

Poor RD had no idea he was supposed to donate blood the day before the race to save weight and spray PAM on his underpants because this tub doesn't haul toilet paper.

This is the big leagues, RD! Hell's Kitchen goes to sea! You want to navigate? Here's your course, 'wog... head West until the seagulls speak Tahitian, and if they start to speak Tagalog then turn around! Shape up or ship out, matey!
MedSailor and Tenoch like this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to ShoalFinder For This Useful Post:
weinie (08-05-2013)
  #333  
Old 08-05-2013
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 73
Thanks: 4
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 2
SalNichols94804 is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
This thread brings up some interesting points. Maybe I missed the answers, but here are my questions:

Say you are on a race or cruise and either you or one the crew wants to get off the boat and you are 1,000 miles from land. What are the options? What if the reasons to get off the boat are due to violent actions by captain or one of the crew? In cases like this what action should one take?
If its a crewed boat, it's ez enough to diffuse by swapping watches. If you're two up, writing snarky messages to one another with a felt pen on the mainsail works. You just NEVER threaten anyone. Once you do that, as RD did on Day 7, you've opened Pandoras Box.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #334  
Old 08-05-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,385
Thanks: 92
Thanked 92 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
Day 7 ..."warned him that I made no apology of my behavior of rising hell if he ever endangers my life again".

"Endangering his life" consisted of multiple trips up the rig to effect a repair.

Days 8-12 consist of sailing and a nightly spinnaker wrap. RD makes a point of having to douse the kite in 17 kts. Well princess, you're going downwind at 7.5, meaning you have 9.5 apparent. BFD. If you knew anything about dousing a kite, you could have letterboxed it if the breeze was too much for you. There is just so much bloody whynging from this guy.

Day 12..."Mutiny is the only way to survive. I begged Harry to use the autohelm to control the spinnaker or we quit. We gladly put our lives on the line so many times (6) and we were only half way to Hawaii. We could not do this anymore. Like all the other times, they refused to use autohelm. I instructed Jake to use my satphone to call Dave Cort (Race Committee) The boat's satphone was no Longer accessible to us. I spoke to Dave begging him to help us to resolve the problem. He refused and claimed that is not their problem and we must resolve ourselves. I told him that this had become a safety issue for the crew members. I asked him to contact the CG for us and have the CG to call the owner. He hung up on me.

Because of poor reception, we moved up to cockpit to call the CG. Harry came behind and attacked Jake and use his arm around his neck and tried to get our sat phone and throw it over board. I struggled with him and he turned around and picked up the winch handle trying to strike Jake's head. I blocked his arm from hitting Jake. I dared him to strike me. But I was in a combat mode to block and struck his nose. He hesitated for a second and I grabbed and threw the handle away. Jane jumped in the midst of this for our phone, I grabbed her hands and pushed her to the starboard side of the cockpit and sat still. I told Jake to escape into the v-berth with the phone.
I shouted both of them with fouled language that they were no match with my strength and speed. 'Don't be stupid'!!!"

Now keep in mind that ALL of this drama is happening because of a few midnight spinnaker wraps, and our Mr. RD feels that it's dangerous to work on deck at night in 17 kts of true wind. Guess what? The same **** is happening on half the boats in the fleet, and all hands toss on their foulie bottoms harness and boots and fix the problem. Is it dangerous? Hell yes, but you do it. IMHO, RD was completely over his head with regards to the 24/7 nature of a major ocean race. I'm not saying that Harry was competent, he clearly couldn't drive at night. That isn't uncommon btw.

You asked me if I was "ok with that". Personally sir, if my crew tried to commandeer my boat, I'd be fine with shooting them.
Look, Sal, I don't disagree that there's a lot of whinging in RDawg's posts. He obviously got in over his head and didn't handle things very well from the start. And, yes, he's got an attitude in this story...one I don't completely agree with.

That said, you seem to have this unwavering "Skipper Is God" mentality with your viewpoint. Yet, simultaneously, you absolve the skipper and blame the whingy crew. Sorry - I don't buy it.

From all your quotes above, show me where RDawg...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
...demonstrated a willingness to physically assault the owner/captain...
...prior to a winch handle being wielded by the very Ungodly Captain Furious. I don't see it. And if you don't either, you really shouldn't be cool with any skipper/owner physically assaulting his crew. Period.

It just seems to me that you're ignoring quite a few "facts" (at least as presented in the story) to conjure up some drama of your own.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40

Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-05-2013 at 03:38 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #335  
Old 08-05-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,385
Thanks: 92
Thanked 92 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Jeeze--Don't you guys know nut'n about racing? Baking soda and salt water are perfect for brushing ones teeth. Keep's em white. Who'd waste fresh water on teeth brushing?
Why brush at all? It's only two weeks. Leave the boat's half-brush at home and save the 1.5 ounces!
ShoalFinder and Tenoch like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #336  
Old 08-05-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,785
Thanks: 32
Thanked 31 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Good question for an admiralty lawyer. Had one experience where one crew(and owner) lost it after blowing out a through hull while dealing with a storm. His brother contained him in the forward berth and we forgot about him until our pressing issues were dealt with. All people on the boat by explicit or tactic action agreed with the move. That individual realized it was the right move afterward as well. Think you do what you to have to do to keep everyone safe ( including the violent person) and worry about the lawyers afterward. Isolate and contain the person without injury( maybe sleeping bags and duck tape are an option or locking them in a stateroom if layout allows). If issue is unhappiness and immediate safety not involved personally would let crew have access to SSB or satphone and work things out him/herself. Suspect if an outside person explained their limited options they would chill and make the best of it or be gone if it could be arranged. Either would be good. Would view it as their problem so they should work it out. Issue in this scenario seem to also included perception of danger due to water and behavior. More problematic. Would probably take them off watch schedule in attempt to quite things down. Another reason to choose wisely before such events occur. Sounds like all souls made landfall so don't know legalities or what action I would suggest. Would follow prudent man line of thinking. My 2 cents.
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #337  
Old 08-05-2013
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 73
Thanks: 4
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 2
SalNichols94804 is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Look, Sal, I don't disagree that there's a lot of whinging in RDawg's posts. He obviously got in over his head and didn't handle things very well from the start. And, yes, he's got an attitude in this story...one I don't completely agree with.

That said, you seem to have this unwavering "Skipper Is God" mentality with your viewpoint. Yet, simultaneously, you absolve the skipper and blame the whingy crew. Sorry - I don't buy it.

From all your quotes above, show me where RDawg...



...prior to a winch handle being wielded by the very Ungodly Captain Furious. I don't see it. And if you don't either, you really shouldn't be cool with any skipper/owner physically assaulting his crew. Period.

It just seems to me that you're ignoring quite a few "facts" (at least as presented in the story) to conjure up some drama of your own.
Smackdad, RD expressed his willingness to escalate the conflict on Day 7. That after being hoisted up the rig 4x to repair the head foil. I'm not conjuring here, it's in his words.

As for the skipper being god, well there you have it. My boat, my rules. If you don't like them, stay ashore or stfu and sail the boat. I'll ask for opinions, but there's only one vote.

Btw, I've said all along that everybody but the old lady had a part in this mess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #338  
Old 08-05-2013
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,904
Thanks: 3
Thanked 110 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Ok, well, here is my take on this whole thing (after kicking it around for a while and reading other posts):

First, I think RD screwed up getting on that boat. I have been in that situation before and I declined to go. Come to find out the boat nearly sank twice too... so a good decision I guess.

I also think it is really easy for a lot of us to sit here on SN and SAY 'RD, you should not have gotten on that boat' versus being there in that position and not doing it. Reality is that most people would have done exactly what he did... especially those without boats. My personal situation is that I own my boat, can go anywhere I want to, am fulltime cruising (and have a family I raise on board), so I can look at the boat and tell you to screw off and mean it... I got my own ride. Dont need yours. I sail or am on a boat everyday.

Another point is that I do not believe RD should even be discussing suing someone over this. I mean, really, what are you going to get? And is it even worth the headache? And if I was dead-set on suiing someone, I sure as hell wouldnt be mentioning it on SN or any other large forum! Just let it be, RD, let it go.

So do I think RD screwed up on that boat? Wasn't there, but yes, I think he can probably take some blame. He could have split up the watches, he could have helped educate the capt, he could have taken the leader position, kept his fists at bay, tried reasoning more, tried being more subsidiary to the captain(s), etc. A simple, "You are the captain, you are the boss," might have gone a long way. Maybe not?? but that's the truth.

ALl that said, the absolute responsibility for the survival and safety of that crew rests solely with the captain (note, I did not say happiness, but that may or may not happen too). The captain of that boat, no matter what kind of crew hes got, was still HIS Crew and HIS responsibility. HE PICKED THEM! I think people fail to realize the incredible responsibility placed on the captain of a boat. I will give you an example:

Just got back from Key West cruise a few weeks ago (as everyone knows). I took a large group out (My kids, wife, and eight other adults) about twenty miles NW of Key West for a diving trip on my boat. As we approached the reef, a waterspout formed behind us and approached us. We were put into a position of having to decide where to go and what action to take. Everyone had an opinion, but in the end, it was all mine. I had the responsibility for everyone on that boat and my decision is what we would do. Turns out the WS missed us, but the point is that when someone gets on your boat, you, as the captain, are responsible for them and their lives. I knew that and so did those travelling with me.

Given that, I hold the captain of that boat primarily at fault. He should have checked out Jake further and known that RD had no kite experience. He should have accounted for the water and for how the crew would function together. He should have known his short comings flying a kite at night. When things got rough, he should have stepped up like a man and become a leader that calmed the situation down and kept control of his vessel... and RD should have heeded to that authority as well as everyone else. As much as it was RD's fault for getting on that boat to begin with, it was the captains fault for not having control of the situation from beginning to end. Period.

But I suspect that is the difference between a professional crew and one that is thrown together. I think that is why we are seeing the differences in opinion between Sal, RD, Chef, Smack, and many others. Quite frankly, the failure of that crew not getting along was not RD's fault, it was the captains, and one he should have had a grip on long before that boat set off for 2000 miles of open ocean.

I am not condoning what RD did or did not do, I am simply putting the blame where it should be - the man in charge. Because in the end, he still has and had ultimate responsibility for everyone's lives.

My opinions as a MMQ.

Brian
__________________
Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cruisingdad For This Useful Post:
jackdale (08-05-2013), smackdaddy (08-05-2013)
  #339  
Old 08-05-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
ParallaxView is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

The subject about brushing your teeth.
I saw a racer brush his teeth in the morning, open a can of beer.
Took a mouth full.
swished, gargled and swallow.
no water wasted
no beer wasted
blowinstink, smackdaddy and TTC like this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #340  
Old 08-05-2013
poopdeckpappy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,757
Thanks: 25
Thanked 39 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 10
poopdeckpappy has a spectacular aura about poopdeckpappy has a spectacular aura about
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
I think it was meant metaphorically.
Yeah, as weak as it was...............the Dalai Lama I'm not

It wasn't about our humanitarianism as much as it was about how easy it is to show a little that resulted in someone in the background getting something needed.

You would hope that would happen in threads like this, where someone in the background benefits without someone else getting hammered first.


Yours truely

The Dalai Madison
__________________
1978 Tayana 37

Freedom comes when youíre ready to sail away. True freedom comes when you donít have to return


Cut off from the land that bore us, betrayed by the land we find, where the brightest have gone before us and the dullest remain behind, .......but stand to your glasses, steady,.......tis all we have left to prize, raise a cup to the dead already, hurrah for the next that dies
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race jameswilson29 General Discussion (sailing related) 65 06-04-2013 02:52 PM
SouthEast Alaska Sailing announces 2013 SEAS Cup Race schedule NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-08-2013 08:50 PM
OKI 24-hr Sailing Race 2013 NewsReader News Feeds 0 02-25-2013 05:40 AM
Melbourne-Geelong Race 2013 Classic30 General Discussion (sailing related) 0 01-29-2013 12:56 AM
TransPac July 2013 MCM aguyleroux Racing 2 11-04-2012 08:48 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:12 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.