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  #341  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
Smackdad, RD expressed his willingness to escalate the conflict on Day 7. That after being hoisted up the rig 4x to repair the head foil. I'm not conjuring here, it's in his words.

As for the skipper being god, well there you have it. My boat, my rules. If you don't like them, stay ashore or stfu and sail the boat. I'll ask for opinions, but there's only one vote.

Btw, I've said all along that everybody but the old lady had a part in this mess.
Okay. That sounds more reasonable. RDawg did indeed, according to the Day 7 story, "explode", "stop working" and "refuse to apologize for raising hell". That can definitely be seen as escalating the conflict. I'll grant you that. My point was that it doesn't indicate "a willingness to physically assault" the guy. Very, very different (and important) bag of clams.

As for you being god on your boat and there being only one vote - no argument here. That's the way it should be.
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  #342  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by ParallaxView View Post
The subject about brushing your teeth.
I saw a racer brush his teeth in the morning, open a can of beer.
Took a mouth full.
swished, gargled and swallow.
no water wasted
no beer wasted
Yeah, but have you ever tasted Spearmint Flavored Pabst Blue Ribbon? Nasty.
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  #343  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Agree with CD completely. As owner/captain you are responsible-end of discussion. Another reason to be very careful who you let on board. Still, Casey raises an interesting question. Would be very interested in others answer to his question.
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  #344  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

I think it goes without saying that you might be GOD up until people think they are going to die because of your actions. Then they do what they think they need to do to survive. At least I hope they do. No one is going to willingly die of thirst because the captain is a Farquaad.
Its up to a point. It has to be. Who determines where that point is? Where the danger or the certainty of death gets to the point that the captain has no more authority?

The people on the boat.

No?
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  #345  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Yeah, but have you ever tasted Spearmint Flavored Pabst Blue Ribbon? Nasty.

I knew you were a PBR drinker. Personally, I don't drink beer very often, but when I do, its to chase the tequilla!
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  #346  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Cruising Dad, with your admonishment, does this mean the thread is “over”? Can I do one last thread hijack and ask a couple of questions on their spinnaker operation? So this Jeaneau had a symmetric. RD, can you go over the operational aspects such as how it was launched, gybe’d, and taken down? Who did what job? I’m beginning to think that “Harry” was racing his house? Or was this boat a bare bones “plain Jane”? Was the owner’s intent to sail it back, ship it or hire a delivery crew?

In the ’08 PacCup, we had a water maker and left with full water tanks. Our provisioning plan was 1 gal per person-day, but we had factored into our planning something like three weeks to allow for unforeseen circumstances like becalmed, rudder issues or god forbid, a rig failure. The gallon per crew emergency water was intended for life raft use only and we figured we would be afloat a couple of days waiting for a pick-up. IMHO, the 1 gallon rule is a little skimpy. You should be drinking that amount just to keep your brain hydrated, kidneys flushing and digestive tract properly working. Add up all the “drinking” water along with coffee/tea/soup water, and water consumed in the cooking process and you are easily over the 1 gallon/day metric. Oh, and by the way, even though we were “heavy” when we started on ‘08, carrying all that “extra” water, we did manage second place in the race and beat the third place boat by over a day.
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  #347  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
I think it goes without saying that you might be GOD up until people think they are going to die because of your actions. Then they do what they think they need to do to survive. At least I hope they do. No one is going to willingly die of thirst because the captain is a Farquaad.
Its up to a point. It has to be. Who determines where that point is? Where the danger or the certainty of death gets to the point that the captain has no more authority?

The people on the boat.

No?
No. If you cannot accept that there's one person making those decisions for the greater good, and that includes the necessary rationing of water, deciding when to shorten sail, when to abandon, then stay ashore. It isn't a democracy or a debating society. Harry clearly lacked leadership skills on top of his lack of sailing skills. I agree with smack et al., that the command vacuum was probably the greatest contributor to the saga. That said, an experienced skipper probably would have sussed out RD's own issues before they cast off and left him high and dry.
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  #348  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Yeah, but have you ever tasted Spearmint Flavored Pabst Blue Ribbon? Nasty.
Yeah, but I think they add flouride to that now, so there's that.
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  #349  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by cruisingdad View Post
ok, well, here is my take on this whole thing (after kicking it around for a while and reading other posts):

First, i think rd screwed up getting on that boat. I have been in that situation before and i declined to go. Come to find out the boat nearly sank twice too... So a good decision i guess.

I also think it is really easy for a lot of us to sit here on sn and say 'rd, you should not have gotten on that boat' versus being there in that position and not doing it. Reality is that most people would have done exactly what he did... Especially those without boats. My personal situation is that i own my boat, can go anywhere i want to, am fulltime cruising (and have a family i raise on board), so i can look at the boat and tell you to screw off and mean it... I got my own ride. Dont need yours. I sail or am on a boat everyday.

Another point is that i do not believe rd should even be discussing suing someone over this. I mean, really, what are you going to get? And is it even worth the headache? And if i was dead-set on suiing someone, i sure as hell wouldnt be mentioning it on sn or any other large forum! Just let it be, rd, let it go.

So do i think rd screwed up on that boat? Wasn't there, but yes, i think he can probably take some blame. He could have split up the watches, he could have helped educate the capt, he could have taken the leader position, kept his fists at bay, tried reasoning more, tried being more subsidiary to the captain(s), etc. A simple, "you are the captain, you are the boss," might have gone a long way. Maybe not?? But that's the truth.

All that said, the absolute responsibility for the survival and safety of that crew rests solely with the captain (note, i did not say happiness, but that may or may not happen too). The captain of that boat, no matter what kind of crew hes got, was still his crew and his responsibility. He picked them! I think people fail to realize the incredible responsibility placed on the captain of a boat. I will give you an example:

Just got back from key west cruise a few weeks ago (as everyone knows). I took a large group out (my kids, wife, and eight other adults) about twenty miles nw of key west for a diving trip on my boat. As we approached the reef, a waterspout formed behind us and approached us. We were put into a position of having to decide where to go and what action to take. Everyone had an opinion, but in the end, it was all mine. I had the responsibility for everyone on that boat and my decision is what we would do. Turns out the ws missed us, but the point is that when someone gets on your boat, you, as the captain, are responsible for them and their lives. I knew that and so did those travelling with me.

Given that, i hold the captain of that boat primarily at fault. He should have checked out jake further and known that rd had no kite experience. He should have accounted for the water and for how the crew would function together. He should have known his short comings flying a kite at night. When things got rough, he should have stepped up like a man and become a leader that calmed the situation down and kept control of his vessel... And rd should have heeded to that authority as well as everyone else. As much as it was rd's fault for getting on that boat to begin with, it was the captains fault for not having control of the situation from beginning to end. Period.

But i suspect that is the difference between a professional crew and one that is thrown together. I think that is why we are seeing the differences in opinion between sal, rd, chef, smack, and many others. Quite frankly, the failure of that crew not getting along was not rd's fault, it was the captains, and one he should have had a grip on long before that boat set off for 2000 miles of open ocean.

I am not condoning what rd did or did not do, i am simply putting the blame where it should be - the man in charge. Because in the end, he still has and had ultimate responsibility for everyone's lives.

My opinions as a mmq.

Brian
bingo
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  #350  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

you know what?

I'm not interested in escalating this argument.

Sal
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Last edited by Sal Paradise; 08-05-2013 at 07:11 PM.
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