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  #351  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Hey, we're all pretty much in violent agreement, largely because we can't imagine something like this happening on our boats. It does kind of stagger the imagination. What it does is serve as an objective lesson about picking your crew or boat. Not everyone is a perfect match. Recognizing that, and understanding that those differences will not improve 1000 miles out, and being able to say no thanks is what we should take away.
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  #352  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
... Quite frankly, the failure of that crew not getting along was not RD's fault, it was the captains, and one he should have had a grip on long before that boat set off for 2000 miles of open ocean.

I am not condoning what RD did or did not do, I am simply putting the blame where it should be - the man in charge. Because in the end, he still has and had ultimate responsibility for everyone's lives.
...
I couldn't agree more.

No matter how much others may have screwed up (and I think RD and "Jake" made some pretty questionable decisions), if the skipper could realistically have prevented or resolved the problems, then (as I said earlier in this thread) the buck stops at the skipper of the boat. In this case I think it's pretty obvious that the skipper sure as hell could have done just that. In fact, unless RD's version of events is radically inaccurate*, the skipper contributed to the problems far more than he helped to prevent or resolve them.


* - RD's account has the ring of truth to me. And even if his version of events is fairly biased I would still come down pretty hard on the skipper in this case. But I would love to hear the story from "Harry" and "Jane's" perspective.
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Last edited by SlowButSteady; 08-05-2013 at 09:24 PM.
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  #353  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

I have questions for RockDawg.

Did you pay for the ride? Was it a free ride? Were you paid? Were expenses covered?

The reason I ask is that I am paid to deliver Vic Maui boats. I was also paid to be a watch captain on Newport to St Barths. I provided instruction and certification on all trips.

However the crews paid for the privilege. Vic Maui race crews also pay (a lot more) for the privilege.

If you have a monetary stake, you may have a stronger incentive to get on board.
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  #354  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Wouldn't paying for the trip rule out using the Dept of Labor as a stepping stone to suing the skipper? Thought they only dealt with employment disputes and the like?

Not being facetious, simply inquiring as to whether there is a rule of law regarding paid passage that still makes one an "employee" rather than a "customer/client"?
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  #355  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Bent

That is why I asked.

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  #356  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

OK, cool. At least I'm not missing something obvious.

I too would be interested in the answer - it would most certainly shed more light on the initial decision to go despite early misgivings. A wasted plane ticket is one thing, but the amount some people pay to crew in some of these races easily eclipses the cost of a domestic flight.
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

The whole deal about whether RD was an "employee" or a "guest" or something in between is rather tricky. Some of the statements in RD's narrative seem to indicate that "Harry" considered RD an employee, based at least in part on the notion that the boat was a "company boat". I suspect that "Harry" has the boat in the company's name both for tax purposes and in an attempt to limit his personal liability. He may have even officially hired "Jake" and RD for the TransPac race. As such, it would serve him right to have a "labor suit" brought against his company for his (in)actions as skipper. However, as I and others have said before, legal action isn't likely to get anyone much of anything but headaches (except for the lawyers, of course). RD and "Jake" might even open themselves up to all manner of legal jeopardy based on the fact that they did participate in a "mutiny" (not a trivial point).
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  #358  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Mutiny - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Mutiny - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
forcible or passive resistance to lawful authority; especially : concerted revolt (as of a naval crew) against discipline or a superior officer. — mutiny intransitive ...

Mutiny, a word which is chilling to anyone who has ever sailed away from safe harbor with strangers. Certainly something which would make a Captain of any boat uneasy if they saw the signs of it happening 1000 miles away from shore.

Mutiny the conscious planned act of takeover against established authority.

In Rockdawgs own words he planned, executed, and was proud of his mutiny. He saw it his right to take over this mans boat, force him to succumb to his methods of sailing, force him to retire from he race. This in spite of Rockdawgs obvious lack of experience,as a racer, lack of experience in sail (never flown a spinnaker) , lack of knowledge of the race rules.

He proudly boasted her how he took over, confronted, escalated, physically intimidated not only the Captain but the other owner a woman. BTW His other posts and threads have shown complete disrespect of women so he's consistent. Sexual harassment lawsuits (public record), photoshops of women's asses, chauvinistic comments...all public reord. This bravado over this rings false. Threatened lawsuits etc.

Brian hit the nail on the head with his post, The Captain had many many shortcomings even if half of what Rockdawg said was true, but there was another experienced racing crew who would have gone along with him as they had two times before, had he accepted the last member. Now they had experience with this as well as offshore racing experience and never would ave decided to go if they had thought they had to mutiny.

Brian was right, many faults by both committed, but mutiny. Suppose those on his boat mutinied when they saw he water pouts and didn't like his decision.

Mutiny. Taking over someone else's boat. Mutiny taking the authority away from the Captain. It's a control power move taking the Captain/ owners vessel away from them.

Rockdawg is lucky the Captain was a paper tiger. Had he tried to force his will on a stronger Captain or one who was armed and tried to hit him or take over his boat he would have met with a more dramatic fate.

I have been in situations with a maniac captain on a delivery once. I did my best to not escalate his ire. I knew it would end when we reached shore. But to mutiny or plan mutiny, no way. Another bad judgement

Mutiny should only be when in real danger, which in this instance was not he case. Yes thy were uncomfortable. So what. The Coast Guard, the race organizers were apprised and watching their position and didn't want to intervene. They were in no danger. Rockdawg escalated the danger on board in his own admission.

Yes Brian and others were right ultimately the Captain was responsible. He was ill prepared to make this race with such an inexperienced crew. He showed lack of leadership many times. He also owned the boat.

He should have throttled Rockdawg for taking over. He should have bound and tied him up and called the race organizers to get him off the boat. But he had no balls and his backup were two women, one 86.

Can you imagine being offshore on your boat with a strange crew, and having them mutiny, threaten you , and take over your boat. Now that's a real threat.

To all you who feel are looking to blame someone blame them all. All but the 86 year old.

Still waiting for the alleged promised movies, even though it will only prove the Captain was a lunatic, which we have had corroborated already. Still doesnt mean danger. This whole story reeks of inconstancies and falsehoods.

Mutiny, a strong word not o be taken lightly. Neither are the mutineers.

Lets see how many invite the mutineer offshore with them. Go armed just in case he repeats himself. And stay away from the Sushi Captain, unless you are in or an uncomfortable adventure with volume....just saying
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  #359  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Good question for an admiralty lawyer. Had one experience where one crew(and owner) lost it after blowing out a through hull while dealing with a storm. His brother contained him in the forward berth and we forgot about him until our pressing issues were dealt with.
Care to share some more details of that incident.
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Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

"Get on a boat purporting to be the Navigator without researching the Captain or even the rules of the race for a 14 day race, not cruise,...come on man"

how many times is this stupid point going to be made? you really think the guy walked on the boat and started dictating what his title would be pre-race? obviously, it was assigned to him and as best I can tell he got them there a heck of a lot faster than the captain would have.

...back to lurking mode.
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