Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013 - Page 37 - SailNet Community
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post #361 of 1053 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by opc11 View Post
"Get on a boat purporting to be the Navigator without researching the Captain or even the rules of the race for a 14 day race, not cruise,...come on man"

how many times is this stupid point going to be made? you really think the guy walked on the boat and started dictating what his title would be pre-race? obviously, it was assigned to him and as best I can tell he got them there a heck of a lot faster than the captain would have.

...back to lurking mode.
Yep your right

oops...not to mention his tactics also got them disqualified. heres the key point you missed while lurking....its a race not a cruise. Did you not get that point? The Captain didn't want the auto plot because it meant automatic disqualification. He didn't want to fly the spinaker when he was at the helm because he wasn't good at it. Seems like a logical decision to me..and a safe one.

Why should Mr Navigator care anyway, he had not read the rules and also had no money invested in the race. No skin off his back

Besides since when is not the Captain the ultimate authority on the boat. Let me answer for you....when he endangers them not when they don't go fast enough,
So yes they finished faster...and we're kicked out of the race.
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post #362 of 1053 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Now that this has been bashed around a bit, does anyone know whether the TransPac organizers plan to do a post mortem on the whole situation? It seems there could be some lessons learned on both sides (for captains and crews) and perhaps even for the rest of the peanut gallery. The rules, the safety check lists, etc., are already probably long and detailed enough, so this is not to suggest the outcome would be used to bulk them up even more. It seems there would be plenty of researchers out there who might be interested in how things can get completely unhinged during these types of amped up and stressful situations.
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post #363 of 1053 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
Now that this has been bashed around a bit, does anyone know whether the TransPac organizers plan to do a post mortem on the whole situation? It seems there could be some lessons learned on both sides (for captains and crews) and perhaps even for the rest of the peanut gallery. The rules, the safety check lists, etc., are already probably long and detailed enough, so this is not to suggest the outcome would be used to bulk them up even more.
I very much doubt it - and why should they? There was no official Protest (or grounds for one), no-one was killed or injured and the yacht in question didn't sink, get dis-masted or even have to call for help. I'm sure you'll find that the vast majority of the yachts in that race were crewed by capable and professional racing types who put their teams together properly, trained for the event properly, prepared properly, thoroughly enjoyed it and will be back again next time regardless.

In a large enough fleet anywhere in the world you're bound to get one or two who aren't quite up to standard and are only in it for the "fun of it" (define "fun"!). Wasting people's time by holding an enquiry into some cat-scratching aboard a rookie entrant purely for the satisfaction of a few arm-chair quarterbacks isn't going to achieve anything positive for anyone involved from the Race Committee down to the 86-year-old lady. Best forget it and move on..
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Last edited by Classic30; 08-06-2013 at 03:00 AM.
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post #364 of 1053 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

try to deflect all you wish. race, no race; auto pilot or not - this one made me laugh out loud....a funny deflection as if had the guy been the cook, he wouldn't have insisted on the autopilot. you think he or someone else willing to take control cares what title was bestowed upon them by the nut, skipper...or what the race rules are....or that they're even in a race? lol nice try, but won't work with me. At the point someone makes this type of decision to mutiny, the past is the past and the only question I would think on someone's mind is whether they want the past to be the future too; especially if you feel your life is in jeopardy.

the bottom line is that the captain gave him that duty. what his background was or wasn't apparently was of no concern of the captain. the CAPTAIN ASSIGNED HIM THAT RESPONSIBILITY. PERIOD.
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post #365 of 1053 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

OK, after re-reading all 37 pages I really find it kind of amusing the way this has turned from a "let me tell you what happened to me" thread into a "this guy (RD or the skipper) had his head up his arse and is totally wrong" thread. Even more than that it amazes me to watch the internet commandos come out under the anonymity of thier protected spaces and fire verbal lobs of how they would do this or that in the situation and then threaten other posters with physical retribution if they had done it on their boat. I sail because I love to sail, I come on here for entertainment or specific advice if I ask for it and since he did not come on seeking advice it would seem his original post was for entertainment values (think professional wrestling) and should be taken as such. I will say this though I would pay money to watch a goold old fashioned Texas Cage Match between RockDawg and Chef2Sail though.

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post #366 of 1053 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by CatMan22 View Post
OK, after re-reading all 37 pages I really find it kind of amusing the way this has turned from a "let me tell you what happened to me" thread into a "this guy (RD or the skipper) had his head up his arse and is totally wrong" thread. Even more than that it amazes me to watch the internet commandos come out under the anonymity of thier protected spaces and fire verbal lobs of how they would do this or that in the situation and then threaten other posters with physical retribution if they had done it on their boat. I sail because I love to sail, I come on here for entertainment or specific advice if I ask for it and since he did not come on seeking advice it would seem his original post was for entertainment values (think professional wrestling) and should be taken as such. I will say this though I would pay money to watch a goold old fashioned Texas Cage Match between RockDawg and Chef2Sail though.
Nice comment.

Trouble is I am not one of the internet commandos which need anonymity from a protected space. A fair number of people on here have met me in person, unlike you or Rockdawg so your description was a bit of a self prophecy.. I don't need to hide from my comments. You may not like how they read, or even agree with them, but suffice it to say I have my own boat, sail it regularly here on the Chesapeake, and enjoy this passion regularly. I try and regularly contribute in many of the forums.

Not looking for a fight with Rockdawg, just stating my opinions for that matter. They are worth what you paid for them. Sometimes my opinions are very much in a minority, that's life.

Glad we offer entertainment for you. My purpose on here is not unlike yours, in addition to the 3000 nm I sail every year.
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post #367 of 1053 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

I believe the OP has actually received a fairly balanced reaction to his story, if you consider that all only get one vote. There are those that sympathize and would have pounded the Captain, those that consider it entirely RDs fault and those, like me, that believe there is more to the story, but understand that an outcry is first stage PTSD.

However, some that consider it RDs fault keep repeating themselves and voting over and over and over again, even reportedly threatening him themselves. They don't count twice.
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post #368 of 1053 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

This situation was certainly brought on by the captain. It should be paramount in these quick-crew situations for the one in charge to make everyone aware of his/her personality. RD would likely never have stepped foot on the boat in the first place had he known the nature of the person he was committing to. It's an interesting relationship on a pleasure boat between captain and crew. It is quite unlike the perceived "military" relationship between officers and crew. It's one in which the captain really needs to qualify him/herself in a short period of time to the satisfaction of crew. No respect can result in things like this. How this can be accomplished is something to think about. How do you integrate strangers to being confined with each other for a long time in a small space? It's an exercise in psychology and reminiscent of '60s era group therapy.

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post #369 of 1053 Old 08-06-2013
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....where wise men fear to tread.

Its inaccurate and unfair to charecterize this as a personality conflict. As if RD had a tantrum on a daysail. It was a situation. For the crew it was a scary situation.They had to walk a fine line. It wasn't too long ago many here werel bemoaning the fact that the first mate on the Bounty hadn't confronted his captain and that by just standing up and being confrontational he could have saved two lives and the ship.

Its not the personalities which caused the conflict, although they contributed to the blow up. It was fear. Fear when the " captain " steered them in the wrong direction, fear when he couldn't drive the boat, hadn't provisioned, rationed the water, tangled the sails. Fear that as the extra days went by a storm would come, or that something worse could or would happen and in the absense of leadership they were very vulnerable.

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post #370 of 1053 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: ....where wise men fear to tread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
Its inaccurate and unfair to charecterize this as a personality conflict. As if RD had a tantrum on a daysail. It was a situation. For the crew it was a scary situation.They had to walk a fine line. It wasn't too long ago many here werel bemoaning the fact that the first mate on the Bounty hadn't confronted his captain and that by just standing up and being confrontational he could have saved two lives and the ship.

Its not the personalities which caused the conflict, although they contributed to the blow up. It was fear. Fear when the " captain " steered them in the wrong direction, fear when he couldn't drive the boat, hadn't provisioned, rationed the water, tangled the sails. Fear that as the extra days went by a storm would come, or that something worse could or would happen and in the absense of leadership they were very vulnerable.
If this captain had acquainted himself with the crew, it likely would have raised some red flags. In getting involved in something like this (which I would not), I'd be VERY concerned as to whether I could get along with everyone. It would be the primary consideration. As captain, a conscious attempt at screening crew has got to be a big responsibility. As crew, screening the captain and other crew members has got to be the responsibility. You simply can't just throw any random group of people together in a cramped space, under adverse conditions without EXPECTING that fireworks may ensue. There was no situation that could not have been easily solved had these folks been able to cooperate.
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Last edited by smurphny; 08-06-2013 at 08:23 AM.
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