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  #411  
Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Running off, a spinnaker will tend to oscillate somewhat. An auto pilot will ignor this and steer a relatively steady course. A novice driver will tend to "chase" the spinnaker, aggravating the oscillation and, in short order, leading to a wipe-out. Frankly, leaving the owner and his erstwhile crewlady driving with the spinny up was asking for problems.
Totally agreed. RD and I did try to helm all night, but each time, the owner insisted on taking over, often around 4am - after which would wipe out exactly as you describe.

RD and I both always tried to get the owner to go back to sleep. I guess you had to be there to understand how impossible it was to insist more than we did, or to put our foot down. (We were not allowed feet.)
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  #412  
Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Running off, a spinnaker will tend to oscillate somewhat. An auto pilot will ignor this and steer a relatively steady course. A novice driver will tend to "chase" the spinnaker, aggravating the oscillation and, in short order, leading to a wipe-out. Frankly, leaving the owner and his erstwhile crewlady driving with the spinny up was asking for problems.
Knowing that why would the "experienced crew" of Jake and Rockdawg, first time spinnaker flyers insist on flying it on the Captains watch when he didn't feel comfortable.

I actually don't trust my Spinaker to my autopilot. A lot of sail area up to get in a knockdown or wrap with a gust of wind from another direction or squall as someone put it. Also at night when I cant see as well I tend to reduce sail area up so the boat is more easily controlled and no one has to do any foredeck work in the dark in a lonely ocean. This of course unless there is a large crew tending it.

I am interested, How many on here who have real ocean experience flying a spinnaker do so at night with a crew watch of two?

I an not an experienced long distance spinnaker flier so I err on the side of caution and safety
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  #413  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
Totally agreed. RD and I did try to helm all night, but each time, the owner insisted on taking over, often around 4am - after which would wipe out exactly as you describe.

RD and I both always tried to get the owner to go back to sleep. I guess you had to be there to understand how impossible it was to insist more than we did, or to put our foot down. (We were not allowed feet.)
Maybe because you weren't in charge......you were crew. Not only was he the Captain...he owned the boat.
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
So the Captain of the ship....
I really don't understand the reason for the tone of your post, whoever you are. I don't know what kind of history you and RD have, but please don't direct that **** at me.
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Knowing that why would the "experienced crew" of Jake and Rockdawg, first time spinnaker flyers....
Also, please actually read my posts to find out whether I am a "first time spinnaker flyer." Sheesh. WTF.
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  #416  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
Also, please actually read my posts to find out whether I am a "first time spinnaker flyer." Sheesh. WTF.
He was self admittedly.

Im sorry you don't like my tone, but like the Captain this is the real world and not everyone agrees or feels sorry for you. I am glad you both are safe however

And as far as my " history" with Rockdawg", that has nothng to do with anything. Dont try and deflect with that false front. If the Cpatian came on here and posted I would be just as "up front" and opinionated about his misdoings. Two wrongs doesn't mean anyone is in the right here.

The facts still remain the facts.

You tried to take someones elses boat over and there was physical force used.

You exercised bad judgement in going knowing you both were the most experienced on the boat.



This doesn't exonerate the Captain at all he has many many issues. He should never have taken two newbies and an 86 year old woman as crew across 2000 miles of open ocean. He obviously has no preparation skills for what he was doing, to the point of potentially eventually endangering everyone on board should there have been a true emergency. His interpersonal skills have no bearing on anything. There is no qualification saying a Captain has to be politically correct all the time or even anytime.
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
I think "Harry" saw rockdawg and me flying it competently and felt he could too—and was far too macho to admit that he needed it taken down.

And even after it sank in that we needed to use autohelm, Harry still maintained, against all evidence, that autohelm really couldn't be used for flying a spinnaker. (This guy had a truly massive machismo problem.) That's why he didn't, and kept messing it up, even after July 19.




There was no formal watch schedule—Harry was far too disorganized for that, and it wasn't the sort of environment where rockdawg or I could propose one. We did sail through squalls. See above answer for wing-on-wing answer. Kite had a sock, and there was a net, but after the net got fully tangled once (thanks to some remarkable, net-proof mess-up of Harry's), we stopped using it. (Perhaps this was a mistake.)
Wait a minute champ. You're saying that you and RD HAD to use the AP when flying the kite? IOW, neither of you two superstars could hand drive the boat under the kite as required by the rules?

Last edited by SalNichols94804; 08-07-2013 at 12:40 AM. Reason: Pope Francis "understands my ire" but would appreciate me not using his bosses name in vain.
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
please actually read my posts to find out whether I am a "first time spinnaker flyer." Sheesh. WTF.
Yeah really, WTF, I think you just met Harry's brother
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  #419  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
Wait an f-ing minute champ. You're saying that you and RD HAD to use the AP when flying the kite? IOW, neither of you two superstars could hand drive the boat under the kite as required by the god damned rules?
Yep that's what he said....but be careful how you talk to them as the political correct police have arrived. I can feel another BBQ lesson story coming
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  #420  
Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
So the Captain of the ship, the owner of the vessel, who has the most to lose and has to pay for a broken boat says he doesn't feel comfortable using it, yet you believe how you and Rockdawg "feel" and "know better" even though neither of you have any prior experience, trumps the Captain and owners wishes on his own boat. How does that work?

Its his boat, not yours. Where do you get off telling him what to do with it. You've got no skin in the game.

Don't feed me that line of crap your lives were in danger either, neither the race organizers nor the CG nor the US Navy believed that or they would have truly intervened.
If the water situation was as reported, it's not crap. It IS life-threatening. And your life is about as much "skin in the game" as you can possibly give. This is where you and Sal are dead wrong. Any conclusions you try to draw beyond that flawed calculus are just as wrong.

In the situation as portrayed, these guys absolutely did the right thing. Period. Everyone made it home safely.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-06-2013 at 08:36 PM.
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