Yep that's what he said....but be careful how you talk to them as the political correct police have arrived. I can feel another BBQ lesson story coming
You two could stand to tone it down a bit. From what I see of Jake's post, he and RDawg flew the spin just fine on their own, and it was the Captain who couldn't handle it. Further, it sounds like they tried to convince him to let them continue to steer but he ignored them and then screwed it up every time.
And Sal, if you ever threatened me with a winch handle, it wouldn't matter if it was your boat and you were the captain. This is not the British Navy in 1700.
I still think there is lots to this story that we don't know, and I suspect that cooler heads could have resulted in a less contentious outcome, but it certainly sounds like the captain was grossly incompetent.
Manual pumps for water are definitely a good idea, even on standard cruising boats. I keep my electric pump off at all times unless it's being used. It's too damned easy for a fitting to let go and dump all your fresh water in the bilge before you know it. I have a wrist band attached to the water pump switch. Anyone using the pressurized water system puts the clunky wrist band on, me included. The water switch needs to stay OFF. The use of bottles, manual pumps for salt water (on my to-do list), even pails of salt water below for things like dish washing are ways to save the precious fresh water. I can understand Harry taping off the faucets but taking the fuse out or just switching off the water circuit would have accomplished the same thing.
Manual pumps are by no means failsafe, however... Especially, foot pumps that can get inadvertently stepped on or kicked in boisterous conditions...
I know a guy who had to abandon their Pacific Cup race about 700 miles out, after someone accidentally cracked the plastic/nylon housing on a galley foot pump, and allowing most of their water into the bilge before anyone noticed... I was a tough call to quit, they still had plenty of emergency rations in bottles, but the right one...
Good on them, they came back and won their division in the next edition of the race...
It's a good practice to keep a pressure water pump off when not in use, of course - but I don't worry too much about the integrity of my system... I always keep one of the two FW tanks shut off at the tank anyway, so worst case scenario I'll only lose half of what I have aboard... That's one of the few advantages of a shallow bilge like mine as well, even the most modest loss of FW will show itself immediately on my boat...
The facts still remain the facts.
You tried to take someones elses boat over
Um, no we didn't. We considered it because all our lives were in danger. But they ended up finally realizing that we did need to use autohelm, and did it themselves. No threats were involved. (Please reread the posts, or cite whatever gave you this false impression.)
Originally Posted by chef2sail
and there was physical force used.
Um, you mean when the owner tried to hit me over the hit with a winch handle? And rockDAWG deflected it? Yes, that's right. That's when there was physical force used. Sorry. Should he not have deflected it?
Originally Posted by chef2sail
You exercised bad judgement in going knowing you both were the most experienced on the boat.
There, you may actually have a point.
So, one of the facts still remains a fact. The others you seem to have made up, for some reason I cannot understand.
Good people, some of the language is getting a bit rich for an OnTopic forum. This isn't the sewer nor are we in the halls of the anarchists. Please try and keep it vaguely civil or at least limit the astericks.
It is interesting how different people react to stress. No one knows for sure how they would react to a stressful situation. I'm pretty sure based on past experience how I would have reacted.
I'm pretty respectful of the chain of command.
The following is my code:
If the owner/captain wants to sail down the middle I would attempt to explain the alternatives once, twice at the most.
If the owner didn't want to fly the spin I wouldn't fly it.
If the owner wanted to fly the spin and wrapped it up in the middle of the night and I felt I could retrieve it I would.
If I was not able to safely retrieve it I would respectfully say so and decline.
If the owner didn't want to use the autohelm I wouldn't use it.
I would use the water given me but might squirrel a little away just in case of a future emergency.
If however we actually ran out of water I would use my sat phone to alert the coast guard regardless of what the captain said.
If I had to drink tank water instead of bottled water I would do so.
From the story it is not clear if they were running out of tank water or bottled water or both.
My thinking is:
1. The captain is the boss and I do what he says with two exceptions.
2. The captain can not order me to do something I can't safely do. I'm the only one who knows what I can safely do. This exception is not about what I like to do or want to do but only about what I can't physically do without incapacitating injury or death. If for example if a captain ordered me to deal with a hose clamp in a deep bilge where I knew I would get scratched and cut by hose clamps I would do it as that would be painful and annoying but not incapacitating.
3. If the boat or people were in serious trouble, out of water, food or sinking or serious illness are the only ones I can think of I would use my sat phone not to call in a MayDay but to put them on notice as to our situation. This one I really don't like. I would really hate it if some nervous nelly hid in the forepeak and called a Mayday on my boat if I was the captain. If I was the captain I would calm the nervous person by making the call myself. Typically in case of a difference of opinion I suspect the cc would require a check-in every few minutes until everyone was on the same page.
In the OP's situation it might have taken a week longer. They may have indeed run out of water, maybe not though.
I think that the above conduct would make the responsibility for any outcome good or bad rest clearly where it belongs.
I think RD was very lucky.
The owner could have been a little bigger and actually hurt him
The owner could have killed him quietly in his sleep, tossed the body and said he fell off the boat.
The owner could have had a weapon
The owner could have, and may yet charge him, with mutiny.
I believe that the chain of command is more important than running the boat right.
I think the Coast Guard's admonition to "de-escalate the situation" was a very succinct way of saying what this long post said.
In other words "stand-down soldier".
I have crewed on may Sail Netters boats and would like to crew on all of them.
I'm interesting in you experienced captains if you agree with this code or think it should be amended in some way.
In fact when taking on crew maybe a discussion of this sort is in order. Part of selecting a compatible crew.
Good people, some of the anguage is getting a bit rich for an OnTopic forum. This isn't the sewer nor are we in the halls of the anarchists. Please try and keep it vaguely civil or at least limit the astericks.
Do carry on.
Nobody's broke water yet! But some are pissing ourselves with laughter...
LetsGo, you eluded to a trophy deal a bit ago, what was that all about
"Jane" was obsessed with the idea we could win something, even when it was completely obvious we were dead last and getting laster.
Her ace in the hole was her mother, who, at 86, was the oldest Transpac crew (ever? not sure). Apparently the Transpac had prepared a trophy for this. Her mother, interestingly, knew nothing of this, and really couldn't have cared less about staying in the race. She just wanted to get to Hawaii, and quickly, please, if possible.