Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013 - Page 47 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1048Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #461  
Old 08-07-2013
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,042
Thanks: 30
Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
Um, no we didn't. We considered it because all our lives were in danger. But they ended up finally realizing that we did need to use autohelm, and did it themselves. No threats were involved. (Please reread the posts, or cite whatever gave you this false impression.)



Um, you mean when the owner tried to hit me over the hit with a winch handle? And rockDAWG deflected it? Yes, that's right. That's when there was physical force used. Sorry. Should he not have deflected it?



There, you may actually have a point.

So, one of the facts still remains a fact. The others you seem to have made up, for some reason I cannot understand.
No one is making facts up except you guys...just reiterating your and his story. So many holes in it, so many questions.

You make it sound like you saved everybody from some terrible fate, instead of enduring a fate of less than ideal conditions on board which would have ended at landfall. Did Harry, Jane, and the 86 thank you profusely for saving their lives upon arrival?

So would you care to tell us all about your encounter with the US Navy?

Where are the videos Rockdawg promised?

How come neither of you double checked to make sure the tanks were filled. Oh that's right you were aboard for ballast and your resumes so you didn't have that responsibility to yourself or others. BTW what were you specifically responsible for checking on and getting the boat ready, or were you just prepared to hop aboard like a cruise line passenger. Did you have some kind of checklist for yourself to make sure you were taking a safe passage, or did you just blindly abrogate that responsibility to fate. What type of preparation did you do before the journey for the rest of your team?

So how were your lives in danger. I still don't get that. Just because you couldn't swim in water or take a bath? How much water was really left? How much do you need daily? 4 liters or approximently 1 gallon per day is the minimum optimal requirement.Remember you usually get 1 liter from the foods you eat. So with 5 people that's 15 liters or about 4 gallons. 14 days is 56 gallons in the tank. I think read that the vessel carried full tank 145 plus whatever bottled stuff. How much was in the tank when you started? 1/3 full? How much did you hit the shore with?


Danger to me means you will die or be hurt. Is that what you are claiming? You were going to die of lack of water with the race committee following you. That's absolutely a preposterous fabrication.

Surely you can substantiate your claim of lack of water and tell us how you knew you would run out of water with empirical figures and know that you were short of water? Or was this another one of your "feelings" without evidence. I mean this was the reason you took over the boat right....water????? So what are the figures that show you were going to come up short.

So let me ask the obvious question....could you have called the CG or the race committee or the US Navy if you ran completely out of water and were going to die from no water? You mean Harry wouldn't have allowed that. Of course he would. Of course you could.

You were not in any imminent danger you were uncomfortable. He just wouldn't listen to you. He just didn't want to do it your way. He decided to conserve as was his right to make that decision as the Captain. You didn't agree so you mutinied. He wasn't going to murder you. You and Rockdawg against a 60 year old man, a woman and an 86 year old woman. and you were in danger, ...please spare me.

Just let me remind you that all the others on the scene didn't think you were in danger either. The race committee, the CG and the US Navy. This was in your mind only...you made it up to justify your actions of mutiny. Really doesn't make any difference what the people on SN or SA think, the professional people who were there monitoring the situation with you don't agree with your acccessment

Face it you let you emotions get the best of you. You allowed the ranting's of the Captain to get to you and exacerbated the situation until you till mutinied and bullied the owner/ Captain out of the way with force, which you seem proud of. By your partners own statement on the thread...you mutinied and are proud of it. You took his boat from him and ran it your way

Buy a ticket on a cruise line next time you want to go to Hawaii
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to chef2sail For This Useful Post:
SalNichols94804 (08-07-2013)
  #462  
Old 08-07-2013
blowinstink's Avatar
Call me Ishmael
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 484
Thanks: 4
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 8
blowinstink is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

I'm not sure I agree with everything below (I definitely agree with an awful lot of it and need to chew on some of the rest). But this is one of the best posts in the thread - IMO -- just for form, usefulness, constructive dialogue, etc. What I like best is that you spoke from your experience and your views on the issue presented - rather than postulating and or / ripping the posters. Probably much more persuasive (as well as palatable) form of rhetoric as well. Thanks David!


Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
It is interesting how different people react to stress. No one knows for sure how they would react to a stressful situation. I'm pretty sure based on past experience how I would have reacted.

I'm pretty respectful of the chain of command.

The following is my code:

If the owner/captain wants to sail down the middle I would attempt to explain the alternatives once, twice at the most.

If the owner didn't want to fly the spin I wouldn't fly it.
If the owner wanted to fly the spin and wrapped it up in the middle of the night and I felt I could retrieve it I would.
If I was not able to safely retrieve it I would respectfully say so and decline.

If the owner didn't want to use the autohelm I wouldn't use it.

I would use the water given me but might squirrel a little away just in case of a future emergency.

If however we actually ran out of water I would use my sat phone to alert the coast guard regardless of what the captain said.

If I had to drink tank water instead of bottled water I would do so.
From the story it is not clear if they were running out of tank water or bottled water or both.

My thinking is:

1. The captain is the boss and I do what he says with two exceptions.

2. The captain can not order me to do something I can't safely do. I'm the only one who knows what I can safely do. This exception is not about what I like to do or want to do but only about what I can't physically do without incapacitating injury or death. If for example if a captain ordered me to deal with a hose clamp in a deep bilge where I knew I would get scratched and cut by hose clamps I would do it as that would be painful and annoying but not incapacitating.

3. If the boat or people were in serious trouble, out of water, food or sinking or serious illness are the only ones I can think of I would use my sat phone not to call in a MayDay but to put them on notice as to our situation. This one I really don't like. I would really hate it if some nervous nelly hid in the forepeak and called a Mayday on my boat if I was the captain. If I was the captain I would calm the nervous person by making the call myself. Typically in case of a difference of opinion I suspect the cc would require a check-in every few minutes until everyone was on the same page.

In the OP's situation it might have taken a week longer. They may have indeed run out of water, maybe not though.
I think that the above conduct would make the responsibility for any outcome good or bad rest clearly where it belongs.

I think RD was very lucky.

The owner could have been a little bigger and actually hurt him
The owner could have killed him quietly in his sleep, tossed the body and said he fell off the boat.
The owner could have had a weapon
The owner could have, and may yet charge him, with mutiny.

I believe that the chain of command is more important than running the boat right.

I think the Coast Guard's admonition to "de-escalate the situation" was a very succinct way of saying what this long post said.
In other words "stand-down soldier".

I have crewed on may Sail Netters boats and would like to crew on all of them.
I'm interesting in you experienced captains if you agree with this code or think it should be amended in some way.

In fact when taking on crew maybe a discussion of this sort is in order. Part of selecting a compatible crew.
MedSailor likes this.
__________________
Come not here if you have already spent the best of yourself

Last edited by blowinstink; 08-07-2013 at 01:08 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to blowinstink For This Useful Post:
davidpm (08-07-2013)
  #463  
Old 08-07-2013
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,042
Thanks: 30
Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by poopdeckpappy View Post
LetsGo, you eluded to a trophy deal a bit ago, what was that all about
It was the Best BBQ story trophy but I am afraid Brian ( CD) has a lock on that.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #464  
Old 08-07-2013
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,042
Thanks: 30
Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

This story gets better and better....its like a cross between Mutiny on the Bounty and Gilligan's Island
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #465  
Old 08-07-2013
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,918
Thanks: 160
Thanked 67 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Chef (and Sal),

Why does this make you so mad? What's the nerve they hit?

Your ire is up so high that you've even stated that you're willing to try and sabotage RD's future crewing prospects (but curiously not the sushi chef's) in the real world for what he's posted here.

RD has done nothing to you. Neither did the sushi chef, and you weren't anywhere near what has transpired. You are witness to the telling of a story, not the grand judgement of St. Peter.

Seriously, are you willing to share what is is about this that bug you so much? Can I buy you enough strong rum drinks to calm that nerve that's been struck?


MedSailor
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by MedSailor; 08-07-2013 at 01:14 AM. Reason: added word sushi to clarify which chef I was talking about
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #466  
Old 08-07-2013
shadowraiths's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: On my sailboat
Posts: 254
Thanks: 27
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 4
shadowraiths is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
The facts still remain the facts.
You tried to take someones elses boat over
Um, no we didn't. We considered it because all our lives were in danger. But they ended up finally realizing that we did need to use autohelm, and did it themselves. No threats were involved. (Please reread the posts, or cite whatever gave you this false impression.)
It's in the telling of the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Me and jake tried to dominate at helm as much as we could.

[...]

Day 12, Friday, July 19:
Mutiny at dawn

[...]

Mutiny is the only way to survive.

[...]

If we don’t take control for the boat and sail her properly, our sails will suffer more damage and water supply will become an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
and there was physical force used.
Um, you mean when the owner tried to hit me over the hit with a winch handle? And rockDAWG deflected it?
And then proceeded to punch the guy in the nose as well as physically grabbing and pushing Jane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Harry came behind and attacked Jake and use his arm around his neck and tried to get our sat phone and throw it over board. I struggled with him and he turned around and picked up the winch handle trying to strike Jake's head. I blocked his arm from hitting Jake. I dared him to strike me. But I was in a combat mode to block and struck his nose. He hesitated for a second and I grabbed and threw the handle away. Jane jumped in the midst of this for our phone, I grabbed her hands and pushed her to the starboard side of the cockpit and sat still.
Btw, and fwiw, here is, at least, one of the apparent threats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
I shouted both of them with fouled language that they were no match with my strength and speed. 'Don't be stupid'!!!
Add to the above, that rock titled this thread "Mutiny at Dawn"? Based upon his title and telling of the story, sure reads like someone was trying to take the guy's boat over.

As for the "lives in danger" bit? I am admittedly still scratching my head on that one. Perhaps you'd be willing to elaborate what, exactly you two mean by that? Bc, frankly speaking, am just not seeing anything in the story that remotely supports such a claim.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #467  
Old 08-07-2013
poopdeckpappy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,832
Thanks: 25
Thanked 40 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 10
poopdeckpappy has a spectacular aura about poopdeckpappy has a spectacular aura about
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
...please spare me.
Please spare us all Chef and give it a rest
tomandchris, opc11 and TTC like this.
__________________
1978 Tayana 37

Freedom comes when you’re ready to sail away. True freedom comes when you don’t have to return


Cut off from the land that bore us, betrayed by the land we find, where the brightest have gone before us and the dullest remain behind, .......but stand to your glasses, steady,.......tis all we have left to prize, raise a cup to the dead already, hurrah for the next that dies
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #468  
Old 08-07-2013
shadowraiths's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: On my sailboat
Posts: 254
Thanks: 27
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 4
shadowraiths is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

I, personally, want to see the videos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Yes, he has lot of footage and recorded through out the voyage. He had three film crews for two days filming the preparation and departure. I also mentioned that he had a film crew in Hilo filming our arrival in Hio.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #469  
Old 08-07-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 15
Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 0
LetsGo is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
It's in the telling of the story.....
Shadowraiths, what you cite is mutiny verbiage (rockDAWG does like his verbiage) and reaction (pushing Jane away after she tried to get HIS satphone from me; tapping Harry on the nose a bit after the [expletive here] tried to [expletive again] hit me over the head with a [third expletive] winch handle).

As for the danger, we figured that what with the underfilled tank (that had been Harry's responsibility to fill, and that we only found out when we were well underway he hadn't filled), we had enough water to last us maybe 18 days. At the rate we were going, it was clear it could take a good deal longer than that, and the owners just didn't seem to care.

Sure, we weren't in imminent danger, but we didn't want to find ourselves in imminent danger, either, and it was looking to end up that way.

Of course the constant yelling and abuse didn't help our state of mind, either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to LetsGo For This Useful Post:
shadowraiths (08-07-2013)
  #470  
Old 08-07-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 15
Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 0
LetsGo is on a distinguished road
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
I, personally, want to see the videos.
I'll look for good stuff, but honestly it's not very dramatic, since I didn't usually have the energy to shoot when there was drama going on. I wish I'd thought to put on the head-mount during one of the night-time spinnaker dramas, but I didn't.

I have some audio files of Harry's ranting and raving. I'll look for a good one.
shadowraiths likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to LetsGo For This Useful Post:
shadowraiths (08-07-2013)
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race jameswilson29 General Discussion (sailing related) 65 06-04-2013 03:52 PM
SouthEast Alaska Sailing announces 2013 SEAS Cup Race schedule NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-08-2013 09:50 PM
OKI 24-hr Sailing Race 2013 NewsReader News Feeds 0 02-25-2013 06:40 AM
Melbourne-Geelong Race 2013 Classic30 General Discussion (sailing related) 0 01-29-2013 01:56 AM
TransPac July 2013 MCM aguyleroux Racing 2 11-04-2012 09:48 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:45 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.