Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013 - Page 59 - SailNet Community

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  #581  
Old 08-08-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
In the example I cited in my previous post...a very good friend of mine and his insurance company paid out $6M. I can't speak for your example or your D.A. I can tell you what happened in this instance.
This sounds like an awful experience.

I do have a few questions/observations.

First, I wonder what the basis for liability was, and how the insurance played into it. It would not surprise me if the $6M was the limits of the owner's policy. Was there a finding of negligence? Or was the crew member covered as an additional insured? Incidentally, these types of settlements are typically covered by confidentiality restrictions, so please don't respond if doing so would open up that can of worms ...

Second, I think this is a red herring, when it comes to the question of the captain's authority. Liability for injuries suffered by a crew member is certainly a concern for any captain, but that is a very different thing than the question being debated here, which is what authority does the captain have to make decisions and run the boat.

As to the latter point, my personal view is that because the buck stops with the captain (i.e., the liability issue) that the captain has (and should be afforded by the crew) a great deal of latitude in the exercise of his/her authority. On the other hand, that authority can be wielded in different ways, from acting like a dictator to soliciting opinions of everyone involved. Personally I prefer the latter approach -- I want to earn the respect of my crew (and learn from their experience and opinions), not demand it. This was the way I was raised and I think it works much better than acting the tartar.

I also don't think the Captain's authority is absolute. At some point if the Captain is making decisions that are grossly incompetent or erratic, to the point where the boat/crew are in serious danger, the Captain's authority is and should be diminished.
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  #582  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

No phone/text messages unless perhaps you and Harry were directly discussing rockD/jake as it pertains to this story.

I would love to hear more about the activity/attitude of the 86 yr old.
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Randolph555 (08-08-2013)
  #583  
Old 08-08-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
We are here and watching. If it gets really out of hand I will jump in and post a pic of TDW in a bikini. ...
NOOOooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not THAT!!! Please, not THAT!!!

We'll be good. HONEST!!!
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  #584  
Old 08-08-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

This is true in the Navy and on merchant ships. There are ways to remove a captain for cause, but the bar is set very high.
If you read any literature pertaining to ships and the sea, experience with crazy or malign captains is likey a top seller for about 3,000 years now
A recreational skipper with volunteer crew is fairly limited in ability to be a farging icehole because his crew will just get off and not come back. In this case the first chance to do so was 2,000 miles away, which IMHO led to some tension onboard. I have a chance myself to do an ocean passage on an unknwon-to-me boat and N F W will that be the first time I set foot on said boat. One thing I found that works is I trsut my watch captains 100% and let THEM deal with day to day annoyances if possible.

EDIT: 2 things I would like to NOT see - Threatening to stalk people in real life and publishing private emails that were not intended for public consumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumbean View Post
This sounds like an awful experience.

I do have a few questions/observations.

First, I wonder what the basis for liability was, and how the insurance played into it. It would not surprise me if the $6M was the limits of the owner's policy. Was there a finding of negligence? Or was the crew member covered as an additional insured? Incidentally, these types of settlements are typically covered by confidentiality restrictions, so please don't respond if doing so would open up that can of worms ...

Second, I think this is a red herring, when it comes to the question of the captain's authority. Liability for injuries suffered by a crew member is certainly a concern for any captain, but that is a very different thing than the question being debated here, which is what authority does the captain have to make decisions and run the boat.

As to the latter point, my personal view is that because the buck stops with the captain (i.e., the liability issue) that the captain has (and should be afforded by the crew) a great deal of latitude in the exercise of his/her authority. On the other hand, that authority can be wielded in different ways, from acting like a dictator to soliciting opinions of everyone involved. Personally I prefer the latter approach -- I want to earn the respect of my crew (and learn from their experience and opinions), not demand it. This was the way I was raised and I think it works much better than acting the tartar.

I also don't think the Captain's authority is absolute. At some point if the Captain is making decisions that are grossly incompetent or erratic, to the point where the boat/crew are in serious danger, the Captain's authority is and should be diminished.
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Last edited by Coquina; 08-08-2013 at 01:06 PM.
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  #585  
Old 08-08-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
Please don't. People should be able to engage with each other via phone/sms without having to worry about their private conversations being plastered on inet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
It would not be appropriate to post those conversations on this forum.
I agree, and makes one wonder why they would have such stored, especially the conversations? Seems that there may be a bit of an axe to grind. Kind of like the camera crew, what was the motivation there?

This whole thing smells like rotten fish to me the more I read.

Sad part is it is like a train wreck and I can't stop reading, good thing I am taking my son to look at colleges tomorrow, so that will give me a break. So I may be singing this:
Quote:
In afteryears, should troubles rise
To cloud the blue of sunny skies,
How bright will seem through mem'ry's haze,
Those happy, golden, by-gone days!
Oh, let us strive that ever we
May let these words out watchcry be,
Where'er upon life's seas we sail:
"For God, for Country, and for Yale!"
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Last edited by miatapaul; 08-08-2013 at 03:42 PM.
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  #586  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
Ha, ha, was wondering if the dirt dwellers woulda figured that one out. But then maybe it was out of a can. I here Chef Boyardee makes something similar in a demi glace or was it raggoute?
well, there was talk about using the microwave, so I am sure it was not from scratch.
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  #587  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

All this cowardice about sharing actual info is a real drag - particularly from folks with no dog in this fight. Thanks to the OP who did share.
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by ThickAndWide View Post
All this cowardice about sharing actual info is a real drag - particularly from folks with no dog in this fight. Thanks to the OP who did share.
Huh???

And, you are certain that the OP posted only "actual information", and nothing but "actual information", how, exactly?

What obligation does any of the principals involved have to us here in this peanut gallery called Sailnet, to "share" anything about the OP's story?
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  #589  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThickAndWide View Post
All this cowardice about sharing actual info is a real drag - particularly from folks with no dog in this fight. Thanks to the OP who did share.
I expressed reservations about posting actual text messages and phone conversations. As I told Randolph in a PM, the moderators have no issues with each party telling his or her version of events. The more who were actually there and want to weigh in, have at it. Where I see it getting sticky is when Randolph said that he has actual phone messages and texts that he wants to post, presumably without the permission of everyone involved in those text/phone conversations.
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  #590  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randolph555 View Post
REFERENCE TO POSTING LOGS, TEXTS AND REPORTS


Being in charge of the first team for TPac '13, on Harry's boat (although eventually our team withdrew) and having been in charge of the teams that did the PV races in '05 and '07 also on Harry's boat (although in '05 it was a Cat 36) we kept accounts and records of inspections, sail inventory, equipment, provisions, measurements, crew records, charts and weather/routes, boat needs and checklists.

I felt that these accounts would give insight as to many of the questions asked in several posts.

But, as I am new to posting and under the advice and suggestions of the moderators I will postpone posting this information until after I have had a chance to discuss it with the moderators in private and will probably wait until Jane has posted.

The material that would be presented is in fact 'neutral' and discloses only the the facts and procedures.

cheers, Randolph
Well that makes sense as to why you would have them. The way it was originally presented it sounded more like you may have had other reasons to expose it. I am sure you are glad you got out when you did!

While I don't think anyone was in any danger, it sure did not sound like a pleasant cruse.
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