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  #701  
Old 08-12-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Smack, we now have to cite our credentials before we are allowed to post? You, of all people are the official screener? What do I need to post in order to qualify? Perhaps not so diplomatic, Sal does offer valuable information on what the conditions are really like out there and how things are done.
I think it's great if that's what he offers. That's valuable stuff. No argument here.

My riff on Sal was twofold: First, he's so blinded by the "sanctity" of skippership that he goes easy on Harry and focuses his ire on the crew. This is precisely backwards - even if the crew were complete knuckleheads. Second, that particular barb was some leftovers from our polite tete-a-tete at SA. So it might have been a bit out of place here. My apologies.

That said, as for qualifications, if one is going to hold oneself up as "all that" - then yes, he should have the credentials of "all that". I don't care about diplomacy...just reason.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-12-2013 at 11:12 PM.
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  #702  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Well, one thing's for sure. This thread is on track to become one of the most popular ever on SN. That's gotta say something about the nature of the story.
Well, it does say somethin! The internet is a wonderful thing, unless you actually take it SERIOUS. If number of posts makes it true we have a real problem! The winner is...nobody!
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  #703  
Old 08-12-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I think it's great if that's what he offers. That's valuable stuff. No argument here.

My riff on Sal was twofold: First, he's so blinded by the "sanctity" of skippership that he goes easy on Harry and focuses his ire on the crew. This is precisely backwards - even if the crew were complete knuckleheads. Second, that particular barb was some leftovers from our polite back-and-forth at SA. So it might have been a bit out of place here. My apologies.

That said, as for qualifications, if one is going to hold oneself up as "all that" - then yes, he should have the credentials of "all that". I don't care about diplomacy...just reason.
I never hesitated in saying the skipper was over his head. If you were interested in anything but your own agenda, which is focused mainly upon being a dick, you'd admit that.

The simple fact is this: a really good crew can make a dumbass look good. I have proof of that on a certain 40.7. These "gentlemen" didn't know enough about anything to know how to be good crew.

Now please, try having some input without spinning other's words to suit the argument you want to make. You haven't earned the chops to criticize me.
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  #704  
Old 08-12-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
I never hesitated in saying the skipper was over his head. If you were interested in anything but your own agenda, which is focused mainly upon being a dick, you'd admit that.

The simple fact is this: a really good crew can make a dumbass look good. I have proof of that on a certain 40.7. These "gentlemen" didn't know enough about anything to know how to be good crew.

Now please, try having some input without spinning other's words to suit the argument you want to make. You haven't earned the chops to criticize me.
Oh c'mon dude. You hesitated. Seriously hesitated.

As I've said many times in this thread, and just a couple of posts ago - I agree with your premise of the "sanctity" of being skipper. I just disagree with the way you apply that sanctity. You should have not only not hesitated on this skipper - you should have said plainly what is clear in this story...he blew it, completely, from start to finish. Everything else was secondary to that.

Here's another example of what I mean...let's take your theory that the skipper didn't top off the water tanks because he wanted to save weight and had correctly calculated the water intake for each person aboard (just as you seem to do). Does good skippering mean that he doesn't tell anyone on board about this water rationing he's instituted? Wouldn't it be a good idea to have everyone on the same page about such a critical item (both in terms of racing weight and survival in a contingency situation) so that people don't freak out in the middle of the ocean when they first hear of only being allowed 1.5 liters per day?

Just as really good crew can make a dumbass skipper look good - a great skipper can make mediocre crew rise to the challenge. None of that happened in this story.

I don't need any chops at all to argue the points in this story. But you need them (and a lot more factual info than we have now) to mete out a final judgement that doesn't point at the skipper. That's all I'm saying. No twisting required.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-12-2013 at 11:34 PM.
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  #705  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Like I said before, I've DONE these races. I don't have to prove anything to anyone, let alone the rockstar of North Concho Lake in San Angelo, Texas. I related to those of you who HAVEN'T done these races, and who provision with a more cruiser like orientation how WE do things. As I said, neither of us is wrong, but then I was the only person regarded by you hardcore cruisers as "criminally negligent". We play different games.

So Texas ocean racing yachtsman of the millenium, Explain to me the logic of a) fearing that you're going to run out of water; and b) refusing to ration water. Please, I'm waiting.

And Steve? if I hesitated at anything, it was in calling you an angry, lonely punk.
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  #706  
Old 08-12-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
I never hesitated in saying the skipper was over his head. If you were interested in anything but your own agenda, which is focused mainly upon being a dick, you'd admit that.

The simple fact is this: a really good crew can make a dumbass look good. I have proof of that on a certain 40.7. These "gentlemen" didn't know enough about anything to know how to be good crew.

Now please, try having some input without spinning other's words to suit the argument you want to make. You haven't earned the chops to criticize me.
I got one for ya, "Sail boat racers are Dicks." I'm willing to bet I've had more blue water pass under my ass than your whole "Fleet?" I think you a$$holes call your selves. Smack has more cred. to criticize you than any body here if you ask me, and the chops to do it. That post of yours proves my point once again that the racing culture breeds people who should really just go and suck it. But thanks for being that way because I love to hate you guy's.
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 08-12-2013 at 11:51 PM.
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  #707  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
Like I said before, I've DONE these races. I don't have to prove anything to anyone, let alone the rockstar of North Concho Lake in San Angelo, Texas. I related to those of you who HAVEN'T done these races, and who provision with a more cruiser like orientation how WE do things. As I said, neither of us is wrong, but then I was the only person regarded by you hardcore cruisers as "criminally negligent". We play different games.

So Texas ocean racing yachtsman of the millenium, Explain to me the logic of a) fearing that you're going to run out of water; and b) refusing to ration water. Please, I'm waiting.

And Steve? if I hesitated at anything, it was in calling you an angry, lonely punk.
Okay. Well, on the water thing...here's what was said:

Quote:
Jake reminded Harry to top off the water tanks but he left the dock anyway to head to the starting point.
There certainly doesn't seem to be any communication regarding water strategy at the beginning of the race. Just the skipper ignoring a reminder from the crew. This decision then apparently led to this outcome:

Quote:
Our water is dangerously low. Jake only given 1.5 L bottle of water to drink each day.
Is 1.5 liters per day enough drinking water for racers in those conditions?

You're right. There's no logic there at all. It's just bad skippering. Yet you've hammered the crew far harder than this skipper who HAS done races. That's the problem.

And BTW, I'm not one hammering the racing mindset. I like to race. So our games are not all that different.
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  #708  
Old 08-12-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
I got one for ya, "Sail boat racers are Dicks." I'm willing to bet I've had more blue water pass under my ass than your whole "Fleet?" I think you a$$holes call your selves. Smack has more cred. to criticize you than any body here if you ask me, and the chops to do it. That post of yours proves my point once again that the racing culture breeds people who should really just go and suck it. But thanks for being that way because I love to hate you guy's.
Come on Aaron, why are you lowering yourself to his level? You are better than that
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  #709  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"powdered whig"
Love it! Isn't that what the cannibals eat when they run out of cruellers and Tories?
I think it's what they eat when the backstrap and jowels are finished, at any rate!

I had to correct the orginal post because I had written powdered "whig", which I would guess is some sort of donut shaped like George Washington.
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  #710  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Well, Steve has yet to post his cv, so I'm calling ******** on you. (Yes modrators, I used the word ********. Get over it). You don't race, you don't get it, and I personally don't have a problem with that. Why you guys feel obligated to criticize other sailors is beyond me. Hell, after every long ocean race, I'm faced with a bloody cruise home. You don't see me pissing and moaning about you guys, even if you don't bother trimming your damn sails.

George, After doing deliveries from 2005 to 2012, and racing non stop from 07-12, I'm taking the year off. I'm restoring my Baltic from the beating she took coming across the NorPac last summer. Hey, ask your skipper about the 07 Santa Barbara race. We passed on opposite tacks off of Goleta, laughing at one another, knowing the other guy was screwed sailing into a dying breeze. That was a fun race.
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