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  #741  
Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
Btw, and aside, here is a perfect example inconsistency from their stories.




Regardless, based upon what these two wrote, the water bit sounds more like a folie à deux on the high seas.
There is no inconsistency here. Jake could have reminded Harry to top off the water tanks, assumed it was done, then didn't learn of the failure to do so until they were at sea. But beyond that, I am a trial lawyer and if two people write out a truthful account of an incident, I can pick it apart like you did and make it look like they are lying. Not because they are lying, but because both memory and communication are not perfect. (The quotes within the quotes above didn't show up, so you'll have to go back to the original post to see what I'm talkin about)

Last edited by Slayer; 08-13-2013 at 08:42 AM.
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  #742  
Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by Slayer View Post
There is no inconsistency here. Jake could have reminded Harry to top off the water tanks, assumed it was done, then didn't learn of the failure to do so until they were at sea. But beyond that, I am a trial lawyer and if two people write out a truthful account of an incident, I can pick it apart like you did and make it look like they are lying. Not because they are lying, but because both memory and communication are not perfect. (The quotes within the quotes above didn't show up, so you'll have to go back to the original post to see what I'm talkin about)
Absolutely right.

Furthermore, taking the line of reasoning that there was, in fact, 18 days of water (i.e. - "they didn't need to top off") the question now becomes why the skipper is only allowing a dangerously sparse 1.5 liters per day to the crew? This isn't rationing - this is punitive withholding. Again, any way you want to slice it, it comes back to the skipper doing an extremely poor job running that boat. Everything else is a reaction to that fact.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-13-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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  #743  
Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Yawn......
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  #744  
Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

I'm still at a loss that people are still talking about what ocean racers do in this context.

Let's review this "racing crew" shall we?

A late-middle aged restauranteur and his wife who can't sail, two guys they met about ten minutes before the race, and a geriatric patient.

Any talk about racing tactics used by trained, experienced racing crew, who know the deal and are prepared for very bad things to happen should the plan fail, has absolutely no validity in this scenario. None.
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  #745  
Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Absolutely right.

Furthermore, taking the line of reasoning that there was, in fact, 18 days of water (i.e. - "they didn't need to top off") the question now becomes why the skipper is only allowing a dangerously sparse 1.5 liters per day to the crew? This isn't rationing - this is punitive withholding. Again, any way you want to slice it, it comes back to the skipper doing an extremely poor job running that boat. Everything else is a reaction to that fact.
According to RD, the 1.5l/day rationing doesn't happen until Day 11 or 12. Once again I ask: why would you not agree to ration if your water supplies were "dangerously low" as described?
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Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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According to RD, the 1.5l/day rationing doesn't happen until Day 11 or 12. Once again I ask: why would you not agree to ration if your water supplies were "dangerously low" as described?
I would agree if that were the case. But obviously there are some real discrepancies in all this wouldn't you say?

On the one hand, you say that LetsGo's estimated 18 days' of water should be plenty. On the other, severe rationing is instituted by the skipper on Day 11 or 12. Why? What happened to a week's worth of water?

Did the skipper and his lady take long hot showers together? Or was it RDawg and LetsGo, assuming that the skipper did what he was supposed to do? Or did the old lady feed the elusive Pacific manatees sweet water along the way? Or was there actually plenty of water aboard and the skipper and his lady were just being jerks? Or was LetsGo's estimate off? From what I've seen, the bottom line is we don't know.

One of your assumptions has been that the crew needlessly freaked out about the water situation. Yet the skipper, who ignored the reminder to fill the tanks in the first place, institutes the rationing. So unless we have some evidence that the crew is needlessly "wasting" all the water, creating the problem in the first place (which I don't think we do), that argument is a red herring. As I said, whether it's an actual survival situation, or simply punitive withholding, it's clearly the skipper's screw up.

On a more general note, I do have one honest question for you and other racing skippers/owners though... If I, as a new crew member, come on your boat just before the race and start opening inspection ports on tanks, pulling stuff out of lockers and the lazarette to go through your safety gear, etc., all to see if I, the crew member, agree with how you, the skipper, have set things up - do you just look on with pride that I've taken the initiative for my own safety?
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-13-2013 at 12:59 PM.
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  #747  
Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

It's pretty apparent that this thread has played itself out.

Time to get back to bickering about anchors, stove fuels, and keel designs.
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  #748  
Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
I
Time to get back to bickering about anchors, stove fuels, and keel designs.
You forgot guns, keeping watch while single handing, avoiding paying taxes on your boat, derelict boats and probably a few that I've forgotten
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Smack I've stopped racing years ago and have very limited experience but part of my pre race was to show all the crew where all the safety equipment was and review the major systems.knowing where the thru hulls , how to check fresh water volume when the bilge was full and stuff like that . Seemed like a good idea then and probably current racing skippers feel the same. Would think if I got on a boat and did that because skipper did not do a run through first and skipper was offended I would hope I would have enough sense to pick up my sea bag and leave.
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Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Smack I've stopped racing years ago and have very limited experience but part of my pre race was to show all the crew where all the safety equipment was and review the major systems.knowing where the thru hulls , how to check fresh water volume when the bilge was full and stuff like that . Seemed like a good idea then and probably current racing skippers feel the same. Would think if I got on a boat and did that because skipper did not do a run through first and skipper was offended I would hope I would have enough sense to pick up my sea bag and leave.
I totally agree. The skippers of the boats I've raced on did just that - take us crew through everything very thoroughly in the shakedown sails before the races. That's good skippering.

The reason I bring this up is that a few have criticized these guys for not going through all this stuff on their own - trusting that the skipper had done his job. On the one hand, they're right. It's your life and your responsibility.

On the other hand, I can pretty much guarantee that there are plenty of very good, experienced skippers, who may not have taken the time to do what you lay out above prior to the race, who would definitely be offended if you, the new crew, started tearing things apart for your stamp of approval.

It's just a much more difficult call than many want to conclude.
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