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  #771  
Old 08-14-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Thought: If any of the participants had been real cruisers, would we have heard anything about rum rationing?
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  #772  
Old 08-14-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
Thought: If any of the participants had been real cruisers, would we have heard anything about rum rationing?
I doubt it.. because that would have been a genuine reason for mutiny!
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  #773  
Old 08-14-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post

I studied charts yesterday to work out my approach. Book says don't go in harbor at night, not sure what is the deal. The harbor is well marked, plenty of water and we will have almost full moon at nite. I will let Harry makes the decision. But at the worst, I am comfortable to go in in the dark.

Above from RD's log. RD even questions a chart book. There are many good reasons to not go into Ala Wai Channel at night, many boats run aground both leaving and coming in at night. When you run aground, you boat is done, you are on coral reef with big breaking swell pounding. Have you ever tried to navigate at night in a channel with the lights of one of the biggest cities in the US as your back drop. Do you think you can make out the bouey marker lights, or where those street signal lights. And RD was the navigator?
When I first read that, it hadn't occurred to me that it was the Ala Wai Entrance that he was referring to... WOW, it's probably just as well they never made it that far...

There's a great shot out there somewhere of a sailboat surfing a swell into the Ala Wai entrance on a pretty flat day...

Can't seem to find it, so this one from Ala Wai will have to do...


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  #774  
Old 08-14-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

I found this decription of that harbor entrance --
Cruising Guide to the Hawaiian Islands - Carolyn Mehaffy, Bob Mehaffy - Google Books
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  #775  
Old 08-14-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

I think he was referring to Hilo.

BTW, RD is the one that was whining about " Water is so short we are not allow to wash our face or brush teeth let alone sponge bath or shower on board."

I don't know if this means that they showered their way across the Pacific until rationing began.
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  #776  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalNichols94804 View Post
I think he was referring to Hilo.
I assumed that the first time I read the log, as well...

However, reading casey's re-post, sounds like he's referring to Oahu...

Quote:

At the current condition, we may be at Molokai light at Thursday dawn. Be in marina at dusk.
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  #777  
Old 08-14-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
I assumed that the first time I read the log, as well...

However, reading casey's re-post, sounds like he's referring to Oahu...
My understanding is they were first headed to Oahu and the Ala Wai (that is where the Transpac ends), then the decided to head to Hilo on Island of Hawaii. My read is the description is for the Ala Wai. Never the less it is best to enter any harbor in the day, especially one you are not familar with or have never entered before. If it is at night, and your engine dies when goint into the channel, you have just reduced your odds of a sucessful docking significantly. And if you need assistance by CG or a tow, much better off in day than at night.

You are probably right on "good water", probably refering to channel depth.
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  #778  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Here is a nice vid of an experienced sailor going out of Ala Wai, and even he has engine concerns.
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  #779  
Old 08-14-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayer View Post
But beyond that, I am a trial lawyer and if two people write out a truthful account of an incident, I can pick it apart like you did and make it look like they are lying.
Well, IANAL, nor do I think they were lying. Memory is malleable, after all. Now, sprinkle that with a good dose of embellishment, and you end up with inconsistencies. What I was primarily focusing upon, was that rock wrote this bit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Jake reminded Harry to top off the water tanks but he left the dock anyway to head to the starting point.
on Day zero. Importantly, he explicitly stated his account was his "daily log"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Here is my daily log while on board a 2002 Jeanneau 43 DS on on route from Long Beach, CA to Diamond Head, Honolulu, HI during the 2013 Transpac Race.
and that the notes were written while en route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
My post is directly coming from my notepad in my iPhone. It is not written as a book, but rather a note to myself to remind me the key fact during my voyage to Hawaii.
So, by his account, rock, at the very least, knew the captain had not topped off the tanks when they headed to the start line.

What I, personally, believe, is that they started panicking around the time they decided to call the CG, Navy, etcetera. Considering the already explosive dynamics, I think all of them (as in both captain and crew) worked themselves up into a frenzy that resulted in the violence that erupted on day 12. In other words, that day is when everything boiled over... frustration, anger, resentment, etcetera.

By the time Rock & Jake come here to post their account, they hold the strong belief that their lives were actually in imminent danger, when in reality, the psycho-social dynamics were the real issue.

And this, imho, is the lesson to be learned.

Yes, knowing how to sail, fly a kite, provision, etcetera, is important. Of course it is. However, the psycho-social dynamics are important as well.

To wit:

We know that harry did fine on the two San Diego to Puerto Vallarta races. Came in first on the cat and second on aquarius, iirc. And that is with the confirmation that he is a yeller, has no spinnaker experience, is a PIA, etcetera. We also know that Randy sailed with him, as crew, both times. And that the primary reason he chose not to sail with him this time is bc he was asked to trade one of his crew for the 86 year old mother-in-law.

What that says to me is that, with the right crew and right psycho-social dynamics, this trip could have been, at the very least successful as opposed to the DNF.

What I see throughout the tale, as told by both rock and jake, is a trip that involved a power struggle that began before they boarded the boat. And part of that power struggle involved beginning with speculating and then escalating the imminent danger scenario to that end. Such that, by the time they called the CG, etcetera, they truly believed they were in imminent danger.

This is not to suggest, or in any way imply, that it was planned. Rather, the recognition that this captain was incompetent and resulting lack of respect played a role in the overall tension and, over time, resentment, thereby setting the tone, trajectory, and outcome. It is important to note here, that this process would not be something that was necessarily conscious.

Which is why, to my mind, outside of the obvious, not getting on the boat in the first place, the Q to be pondered is, how does one work within this sort of environ to mitigate, rather than exacerbate this minefield of a situation?

I suspect that the answer will differ due to individual personalities and characteristics. However, I do think it is worthwhile to consider. Even for those who think they'd never actually find themselves in such a position.

Eta ~ the psycho-social dynamics is precisely why I find this thread interesting.
Slayer, chef2sail and casey1999 like this.

Last edited by shadowraiths; 08-14-2013 at 03:29 PM.
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  #780  
Old 08-14-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
Well, IANAL, nor do I think they were lying. Memory is malleable, after all. Now, sprinkle that with a good dose of embellishment, and you end up with inconsistencies. What I was primarily focusing upon, was that rock wrote this bit:



on Day zero. Importantly, he explicitly stated his account was his "daily log"



and that the notes were written while en route.



So, by his account, rock, at the very least, knew the captain had not topped off the tanks when they headed to the start line.

What I, personally, believe, is that they started panicking around the time they decided to call the CG, Navy, etcetera. Considering the already explosive dynamics, I think all of them (as in both captain and crew) worked themselves up into a frenzy that resulted in the violence that erupted on day 12. In other words, that day is when everything boiled over... frustration, anger, resentment, etcetera.

By the time Rock & Jake come here to post their account, they hold the strong belief that their lives were actually in imminent danger, when in reality, the psycho-social dynamics were the real issue.

And this, imho, is the lesson to be learned.

Yes, knowing how to sail, fly a kite, provision, etcetera, is important. Of course it is. However, the psycho-social dynamics are important as well.

To wit:

We know that harry did fine on the two San Diego to Puerto Vallarta races. Came in first on the cat and second on aquarius, iirc. And that is with the confirmation that he is a yeller, has no spinnaker experience, is a PIA, etcetera. We also know that Randy sailed with him, as crew, both times. And that the primary reason he chose not to sail with him this time is bc he was asked to trade one of his crew for the 86 year old mother-in-law.

What that says to me is that, with the right crew and right psycho-social dynamics, this trip could have been, at the very least successful as opposed to the DNF.

What I see throughout the tale, as told by both rock and jake, is a trip that involved a power struggle that began before they boarded the boat. And part of that power struggle involved beginning with speculating and then escalating the imminent danger scenario to that end. Such that, by the time they called the CG, etcetera, they truly believed they were in imminent danger.

This is not to suggest, or in any way imply, that it was planned. Rather, the recognition that this captain was incompetent and resulting lack of respect played a role in the overall tension and, over time, resentment, thereby setting the tone, trajectory, and outcome. It is important to note here, that this process would not be something that was necessarily conscious.

Which is why, to my mind, outside of the obvious, not getting on the boat in the first place, the Q to be pondered is, how does one work within this sort of environ to mitigate, rather than exacerbate this minefield of a situation?

I suspect that the answer will differ due to individual personalities and characteristics. However, I do think it is worthwhile to consider. Even for those who think they'd never actually find themselves in such a position.

Eta ~ the psycho-social dynamics is precisely why I find this thread interesting.
Slayer, I think you have found your expert witness . . . now if you can only figure out how to tell her what to say
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