Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013 - Page 86 - SailNet Community
 1047Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #851 of 1053 Old 08-21-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,610
Thanks: 1
Thanked 188 Times in 156 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Jane is incoherent jbbering twit which is what the first post in the thread said.

And the jibbering incoherent senior members of this forum chose to believe the "Janes" of this world for the last few weeks rather than a fellow forum member's tale of woe.

Neither Rocky nor Jake have reappeared on this forum since dumped upon.

Well, those who didnt believe Rockdawg and Jake should be ashamed of yourselves.
Classic example of an Either/Or Fallacy:

"Jane is not credible, ergo RD's account is deemed unquestionably accurate..."
JonEisberg is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #852 of 1053 Old 08-21-2013
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,339
Thanks: 147
Thanked 129 Times in 122 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Classic example of an Either/Or Fallacy:

"Jane is not credible, ergo RD's account is deemed unquestionably accurate..."
How about this: "RD's account is now more credible."
poopdeckpappy, Plumbean and TTC like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
smackdaddy is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #853 of 1053 Old 08-21-2013
Senior Member
 
poopdeckpappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 6,071
Thanks: 34
Thanked 41 Times in 35 Posts
Rep Power: 10
   
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
To disconnect the AP, while at sea, I had to turn off all electronics to the Pedestal
I've never seen a boat where that was the case, all AP's I've delt with were/are on seperate circuits

1955 Blanchard 51 Custom ( I got a woody )

Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change and Rum to accept the things I can't
poopdeckpappy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #854 of 1053 Old 08-21-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,610
Thanks: 1
Thanked 188 Times in 156 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
How about this: "RD's account is now more credible."
Or, this?

Given Jane's recent 'contributions', RD's decision to get aboard that boat was even dumber than it originally appeared to be..."

:-)
JonEisberg is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #855 of 1053 Old 08-21-2013
Senior Member
 
BentSailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Central Coast, NSW
Posts: 10,414
Thanks: 1
Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
How about this: "RD's account is now more credible."
How so? I don't think Jane's personality was ever really in question (whether people believed RD or not, I can't recall anyone calling him about Jane's personality). The issues that most people seemed to have with the story are about different things.

I'm not saying this because I have a beef against either side, but because her personality really isn't where the doubt comes in on the story. If I tell you I looked up at the blue sky then looked across the street to see Elvis with Buddy Holly having a beer - just because the sky happens to be blue doesn't make the story any more credible.

Jane seems a sandwich or two short of a picnic. Honestly, I've met some sailors (good ones) that come across just as bad online (& almost as bad in person). Sorry, but that really doesn't change the elements I have doubt about myself.

--
Please note, I'm not taking sides. This is not a post supporting Jane/Harry nor taking a pot-shot at Dawg/Jake.
BentSailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #856 of 1053 Old 08-22-2013
sailing soon
 
mark2gmtrans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 813
Thanks: 2
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Send a message via Yahoo to mark2gmtrans
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
This has got to be one of my faves:



"What do you mean 'you're thirsty'? After all the salty broth and alcohol we've given you? HTFU and thank me for that 1.5 liters! THIRST IS VERB!"
I know that 1.5 liters is not anywhere near enough water for people who are performing the labor of sailing, especially when sailing in tropical climates. The Mayo Clinic doctors think so too....

Quote:
How much water do you need?

Every day you lose water through your breath, perspiration, urine and bowel movements. For your body to function properly, you must replenish its water supply by consuming beverages and foods that contain water.

So how much fluid does the average, healthy adult living in a temperate climate need? The Institute of Medicine determined that an adequate intake (AI) for men is roughly 3 liters (about 13 cups) of total beverages a day. The AI for women is 2.2 liters (about 9 cups) of total beverages a day.
Quote:
Factors that influence water needs

You may need to modify your total fluid intake depending on how active you are, the climate you live in, your health status, and if you're pregnant or breast-feeding.

Exercise. If you exercise or engage in any activity that makes you sweat, you need to drink extra water to compensate for the fluid loss. An extra 400 to 600 milliliters (about 1.5 to 2.5 cups) of water should suffice for short bouts of exercise, but intense exercise lasting more than an hour (for example, running a marathon) requires more fluid intake. How much additional fluid you need depends on how much you sweat during exercise, and the duration and type of exercise. During long bouts of intense exercise, it's best to use a sports drink that contains sodium, as this will help replace sodium lost in sweat and reduce the chances of developing hyponatremia, which can be life-threatening. Also, continue to replace fluids after you're finished exercising.
Environment. Hot or humid weather can make you sweat and requires additional intake of fluid. Heated indoor air also can cause your skin to lose moisture during wintertime. Further, altitudes greater than 8,200 feet (2,500 meters) may trigger increased urination and more rapid breathing, which use up more of your fluid reserves.
Illnesses or health conditions. When you have fever, vomiting or diarrhea, your body loses additional fluids. In these cases, you should drink more water. In some cases, your doctor may recommend oral rehydration solutions, such as Gatorade, Powerade or CeraLyte. Also, you may need increased fluid intake if you develop certain conditions, including bladder infections or urinary tract stones. On the other hand, some conditions such as heart failure and some types of kidney, liver and adrenal diseases may impair excretion of water and even require that you limit your fluid intake.
Pregnancy or breast-feeding. Women who are expecting or breast-feeding need additional fluids to stay hydrated. Large amounts of fluid are used especially when nursing. The Institute of Medicine recommends that pregnant women drink 2.3 liters (about 10 cups) of fluids daily and women who breast-feed consume 3.1 liters (about 13 cups) of fluids a day.
See more here.... Water: How much should you drink every day? - MayoClinic.com


I would say that the Captain/Owner should have planned for a minimum of four gallons per, day per person, plus a ten day reserve. This is a lot of water, and I know the boat would not be able to carry that much, so there is an issue from the start. I wonder why the owner of a race boat would not go with a three day sized tank and a watermaker that would fill it with a short time of running the generator or engine every day to keep it topped off? That would keep the weight lower, and help them make the passage more comfortably.

This is a long open ocean race, the boat has to finish with a healthy crew, and that includes the mental health of the crew as well, or starting the race does not make sense. You cannot finish the race in a good position if you are not performing at your peak levels, you cannot perform at peak levels if you are dehydrated. Mentally a person loses performance when dehydrated, in fact it can make you crazy, insane, doing things that are dangerous crazy.

Now I am sure there will be someone who will want to lecture us all about how open ocean racing means going without water. How having water is not a priority, and keeping your socks is too much weight, and stuff like that, which is insane. This is probably one of the long term side effects of being continually dehydrated, or perhaps just being an a$$. I personally do not understand why some people think that being dehydrated is a good thing, especially while performing the extremely strenuous labor of open ocean racing.

Apparently the folks over at the VOR agree with me on needing a watermaker, and plenty of water for the crew. In fact they seem to even be concerned about proper space, and crew comfort aboard the racing boats.

Quote:
Q — How much fuel will a Volvo Open 70 carry and what is it used for?

A — The minimum fuel tank size is 230ltrs. The fuel is used mainly to generate power for the navigation and instrument systems, lights, keel movement, communications, the water maker and the media equipment.
From: The Volvo Ocean 70 Explained | Sailing World

Quote:
Volvo Ocean 60-Class Stats

Required number of motorized desalinators: 1
Required number of manual desalinators: 2
Required amount of emergency fresh water: 11 gal (50 L)
Humans can survive about three days without fresh water; VO 60s carry enough to last about one. So the desalinator, which turns pumped-in seawater potable, may be the most essential item onboard—and the greatest weight saver, given how heavy stored water would be.

If the motorized desalinator breaks down, it’s time to break into the emergency stash or break out the manual pumps. But be warned: “The amount of fresh water produced is about equivalent to the amount of sweat lost using them,” according to one skipper during the 1997-98 race.
National Geographic | Volvo Ocean Race 2001-2002


Quote:
(7) Desalination Units: Two (additional to the one stowed in each life raft) hand desalination
units, one of which shall be capable of desalinating 100 litres per day. This unit shall have
an ergonomically sound mounting to facilitate routine water production in the event of a
failure in the motor driven desalination units. The second unit shall be capable of
desalinating 20 litres of water per day. Both shall be stored in the Emergency Equipment
Locker refer Volvo Open 70 Rule 12.6.1.
http://www.volvooceanrace.com/static...endment-12.pdf


I was thinking of making another comment or two about the so called expert open ocean racers who say they run the race with nearly empty tanks, but I am going to stay silent because I think that sensible parties have already come to understand that the idea of sailing thirsty is just not a good plan.

It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
mark2gmtrans is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #857 of 1053 Old 08-22-2013
Senior Slacker
 
SlowButSteady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,223
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Note to self:

Never commit to a sailing trip without having known the other crew members (including the skipper) for at least as long as the voyage is going to last.

Never forget them. Do something to prevent it from happening again.
Charlotte Bacon, Daniel Barden, Rachel Davino, Olivia Josephine Gay, Ana M. Marquez-Greene, Dylan Hockley, Dawn Hochsprung, Madeleine F. Hsu, Catherine V. Hubbard, Chase Kowalski, Jesse Lewis, James Mattioli , Grace McDonnell, Anne Marie Murphy, Emilie Parker, Jack Pinto, Noah Pozner, Caroline Previdi, Jessica Rekos, Avielle Richman, Lauren Rousseau, Mary Sherlach, Victoria Soto, Benjamin Wheeler, Allison N. Wyatt
SlowButSteady is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #858 of 1053 Old 08-22-2013
Reward for lost Kraken!
 
hellosailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,434
Thanks: 5
Thanked 131 Times in 128 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

"And the jibbering incoherent senior members of this forum chose to"

Eh, Mark? If they are incoherent, how can you figure out what they chose or said? By definition...you've just committed a Jane?

I have to wonder, if you're taking along 86 year olds...not that they can't sail and sail well, but when you take the mother-in-law along, that says to me "Not seriously racing here, just going out for a ride" and that just doesn't add up to carrying less than full tanks of water. Only serious racers try to cut weight by shorting the water and fuel, and they don't take supercargo along for the ride.

Even if I thought dawg was off his meds (which I don't) it just don't all add up. Especially, why Harry would need to import crew from the east coast. Rock stars, sure, you take 'em where you can get 'em. But it also says to me that he couldn't get any local crew, and that suggests the locals don't want to sail with him.

You know?

There's always some reason when that happens.

Maybe next year, the TransPac folks could get GoPro to loan them four cameras on each boat.
hellosailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #859 of 1053 Old 08-22-2013
Reward for lost Kraken!
 
hellosailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,434
Thanks: 5
Thanked 131 Times in 128 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

skuttle the water...Uh, no, sailors know how to spell "scuttle" and that you can't skuttle water.

"We caught The Dawg washing his eye glasses under running water for several minutes, although Windex, was stipulated as the solvent to use."
Again, no. I do use Windex myself but the folks at SC Johnson are adamant about the fact at it should NEVER be used for coated lenses, which means pretty much all modern glasses. Never for many plastics, and most lenses today fall into those categories too.

"Stipulated" is also meaningless unless one says who it was stipulated by and whether anyone raised that objection, or otherwise.

Back to water...Oh come on now, are we aboard the HMS Bounty? Really, dipping the hold to determine water level? If I read that in a book, I'd say the author had never been on a boat.

And "FCC Title 14" ?? That's pure gibberish, the FCC refers to "Part ##" of their regulations, which in turn appear in the CFR, typically Title 47 of the CFR. I can't find any reference to FCC Title or Part 14.


Jane, Jane, is there a medical problem here? I understand what stroke damage and dementia can do, I've had family work through both, and I'd have to say that what you are saying reminds me strongly of that. What you are posting is only serving to confirm that there is something very simply wrong here.

Last edited by hellosailor; 08-22-2013 at 12:52 AM.
hellosailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #860 of 1053 Old 08-22-2013
sailing soon
 
mark2gmtrans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 813
Thanks: 2
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Send a message via Yahoo to mark2gmtrans
Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
skuttle the water...Uh, no, sailors know how to spell "scuttle" and that you can't skuttle water.

"We caught The Dawg washing his eye glasses under running water for several minutes, although Windex, was stipulated as the solvent to use."
Again, no. I do use Windex myself bu the folks at SC Johnson are adamant about the fact at it should NEVER be used for coated lenses, which means pretty much all modern glasses. "Stipulated" is also meaningless unless one says who it was stipulated by and whether anyone raised that objection, or otherwise.

Back to water...Oh come on now, are we aboard the HMS Bounty? Really, dipping the hold to determine water level? If I read that in a book, I'd say the author had never been on a boat.

And "FCC Title 14" ?? That's pure gibberish, the FCC refers to "Part ##" of their regulations, which in turn apear in the CFR, typically Title 47 of the CFR. I can't find any reference to FCC Title or Part 14.


Jane, Jane, is there a medical problem here? I understand what stroke damage and dementia can do, I've had family work through both, and I'd have to say that what you are saying simply does not make sense except in a context like that. What you are posting is only serving to confirm that there is something very simply wrong here.
Prolonged dehydration probably did it, that and absorbing the windex into her brain via the ocular tissue.

It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
mark2gmtrans is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cheap Classic Plastic smokes the fleet in 2013 Down the Bay Race jameswilson29 General Discussion (sailing related) 65 06-04-2013 02:52 PM
SouthEast Alaska Sailing announces 2013 SEAS Cup Race schedule NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-08-2013 08:50 PM
OKI 24-hr Sailing Race 2013 NewsReader News Feeds 0 02-25-2013 05:40 AM
Melbourne-Geelong Race 2013 Classic30 General Discussion (sailing related) 0 01-29-2013 12:56 AM
TransPac July 2013 MCM aguyleroux Racing 2 11-04-2012 08:48 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome