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  #881  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post

... I wonder if any of them will race again (and that is the real tragedy in all of this).
Actually, I would suggest that if each and every one of these people involved NEVER participate in a race again, that might be the BEST possible thing to come out of this mess :-)

Especially, the one(s) who were actually mulling over the possibility of resorting to legal action...

Last edited by JonEisberg; 08-22-2013 at 12:56 PM.
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  #882  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
If you are serious about water conservation, I can start another thread and we can discuss some more specifics. But if you are setting this up for cruisers versus racing, I think the numbers will be different (less conservative).

Brian
I'm serious about it...for both racing and cruising. However, as I've said in the "Slow Racing/Fast Cruising" thread, I have no intention to go Full Sparta in our racing.

So seeing real-life tips like yours, and Sal's, is important. What works, what doesn't? Where do I want to fall in that spectrum?
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  #883  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefacts View Post
Why are you sullying a 107year Race, the committee and qualified participants, members of ORR/US Sail???
Well quite frankly, you didn't do them any favors either. I suspect your monitor must be covered in spit and your exclamation key probably popped off a few times.

You know, now that I have jumped on RD and Jake, I gotta say, your comments shocked me (not that you could really give a pattotie what I think, I understand, sometimes I don't care what I think either). But if this is how you respond to his accusations after many weeks of cooling down, then you must have been really interesting on that boat in the heat of it.

Duct tape? Really? Why didn't you just sit down with them as adults and discuss what you were doing and why? Did that not work or did you bother?

Did you discuss the water up front (not that I think that was the main issue, I think it was a failure of trust)?

Did you discuss the AP and they made you do it anyways?

Do you and Harry not know how to fly a kite?

Why did you pick them for crew? Why not a different team you have worked with in the past or people you knew? What were the minimum qualifications for that trip to be on your boat?

Obviously you wouldn't choose RD or Jake for a trip again, but how has this changed how you will choose your crew in the future?

Brian
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  #884  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Actually, I would suggest that if each and every one of these people involved NEVER participate in a race again, that might be the BEST possible thing to come out of this mess :-)

Especially, the one(s) who were actually mulling over the possibility of resorting to legal action...
I don't know Jon. There are a lot of assumptions here. THere may very well be crews that work well with them and they all get along. Certainly not RD and Jake, but others. The same thing is true for RD and Jake. THere may be captains that they would get along with too. For example, I wonder how they would have done on Nick (SalNick's) boat? I don't think he would have put up with any BS, but his crew obviously trusts him and he trusts them. I think that would have come through.

That was the failure here - trust on both sides. Sometimes you can have two really good people that simply have personalities that cannot get along. Divorce lawyers make a killing off of that.

My opinions.

Brian

PS On the legal action bit, I whole heatedly agree. That was a mistake to say or think that. But I doubt RD is pursuing that... at least I assume he is not.
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  #885  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Offshore you wash things in SALT water. Fresh is only for a rinse. Joy soap is famous for sudsing in salt water Most old-time watermaker-less cruisers only showered when nature provided the shower during a rainstorm. You can catch a LOT of water during rainstorms too if you have a good setup. If you just HAVE to clean yourself, a wipedown can be done with a washcloth and around a quart of water.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I'm serious about it...for both racing and cruising. However, as I've said in the "Slow Racing/Fast Cruising" thread, I have no intention to go Full Sparta in our racing.

So seeing real-life tips like yours, and Sal's, is important. What works, what doesn't? Where do I want to fall in that spectrum?
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  #886  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I'm serious about it...for both racing and cruising. However, as I've said in the "Slow Racing/Fast Cruising" thread, I have no intention to go Full Sparta in our racing.

So seeing real-life tips like yours, and Sal's, is important. What works, what doesn't? Where do I want to fall in that spectrum?
I am battling a cold right now, but will see what I can do. It will be a good discussion, esp if we get Jon, Aaron, WingnWing and other cruisers in there as their numbers may be different.

B
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  #887  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
I am battling a cold right now, but will see what I can do. It will be a good discussion, esp if we get Jon, Aaron, WingnWing and other cruisers in there as their numbers may be different.

B
No worries. I just copied yours and Coq's posts to the Slow Racing thread to keep them handy. Good stuff.
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  #888  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Really, washing eyegalsses is a matter of life or death??? Come on... what that indicates is just the depth of petty b.s. to which they did sink, be it technicaly their prerogative to do so,.. it is still petty. And the fact that Jane brings it up herself shows me how incredibly blind she is to how something like that is perceived.

Guy is sailing to Hawaii with you for 2 weeks. Let him have a couple ounces of water to wash his glasses. He wasn't taking a shower.
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  #889  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
Guy is sailing to Hawaii with you for 2 weeks. Let him have a couple ounces of water to wash his glasses. He wasn't taking a shower.
Yeah, but you do not rinse stuff and let the water run while doing it, not even on a cruising boat.

It is like letting the water run while brushing your teeth.

you turn on water
wet the brush
turn off water
brush
turn on water briefly to rinse mouth
turn off water.

simple.
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  #890  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Sal, you may disagree with Mark about water stowage, but his main point was that 1.5 liters per day is nuts. He suggests twice as much, 3 liters, while you are actually increasing that to FOUR liters, one gallon more or less.

And one gallon per person per day also happens to be the rough number used by many organizations, like DHS in all of their domestic preparation training. Been the same since the old Civil Defense fallout shelters, which also were stocked with one gallon per person per day. That's for couch potatoes in moderate climates allowing for some hygiene as well as drinking. Your only real difference comes at carrying the double reserve and of course a really good racing skipper arrives at the finish with zero reserves of anything, if the rules allow it. Which is why Bermuda races require a minimum of fuel onboard when the race is started. (Although I don't remember them requiring water, ever. Funny, maybe they figure sailors should have that much sense.)

The multiple comments about dehydration...Yes, it is interesting that one of the first consequences of dehydration is muddled thinking and that can also produce speech patterns similar to stroke. Dehydration will quickly lead to heat stroke or heat exhaustion and if no one on the boat treats that, it can lead to death on the same day.

But Sal, it sure sounds like you have good eyes that don't need glasses. Keeping salt spray off glasses, off real corrective lenses that can easily run $500 a pair these days, isn't easy. If you don't use adequate WATER on them, potable fresh water, then the salt rapidly abrades the coatings and the lenses and ruins them. Yes, that takes fresh water and clean soft paper towels to get them clean without damage. Yes, it is a wasteful PITA unless you need glasses and you're trying to keep them clean. You just try suggesting you'll use Windex to clean a camera lens, or binocs. Ask Nikon or Canon or Fuji what they have to say about that, and what will happen if you let some salt "dust" build up before you clean their lenses--which have the same coatings on them. Letting water RUN...would be excessive. Using enough water to dissolve and remove any salt solids, would be necessary.


Jon-
You're knocking RD over seeing the Swift, but that video clip was from MAY about a prior deployment. The race was more than halfway into JULY (May, June, July...) and Swift is designed as a high-speed craft. Unclassified speed, 48 knots, according to the DoD.

MSC Ship Inventory - High-Speed Vessels (HSV)

Other comments indicate Swift has made at least 66 knots on occasion, and the Wiki says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSV-2_Swift
"Swift returned to Incat at Hobart in July 2013 for refit for sale or charter.[6]"

That's Hobart AUSTRALIA, conveniently across the path of the TransPac during JULY, when the race was running. Sorry, but that UFO citing checks out. Apparently Swift only spent two weeks in port swapping crews, like a nuke sub, and then checked out again. She was built in Oz, which is why she "returned" to Hobart.

Unless you think the USN and the Wiki are in on the conspiracy? The dates and times do check out. Sixty knots...damn that must be fun. :-)
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