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  #931  
Old 08-23-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

No boat that is carrying a hundred pounds of grandma can possibly care about shorting water in the tanks for a race. They just blew it.
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  #932  
Old 08-23-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
No boat that is carrying a hundred pounds of grandma can possibly care about shorting water in the tanks for a race. They just blew it.
I was just about to say the same thing.

Oh and for the WATER MAKER IS NOT PERMITTED guy...

ISAF RULES FOR TRANSPAC

Quote:
3.21.2 Drinking Water
a) Each yacht shall have the necessary equipment (which may include watermakers and tanks containing water) permanently installed to provide at least 3 litres of drinking water per person per day for at least the likely duration of the voyage MoMu0
3.21.3 Emergency Drinking Water MoMu0,1,2,3
a) At least 9 litres (2 UK gallons, 2.4 US gallons) of drinking water for emergency use shall be provided in a dedicated and sealed container or container(s) MoMu1,2,3
b) In the absence of a power driven watermaker, at least 1 litre per person per day in at least two separate containers shall be provided for the expected duration of the voyage MoMu0
c) When a power-driven watermaker is on board, at least 500ml per person per day in at least two separate containers shall be provided for the expected duration of the voyage MoMu0
d) Facilities shall be provided to collect rainwater for drinking purposes including when dismasted MoMu0
e) All drinking water and any desalination units should be so arranged that drinking water is readily accessible when the yacht is inverted.
Also ISAF and Transpac require that the skipper and crew be trained, and experienced on the very same boat they sail on, they must practice together, and a whole lot of other stuff that never happened on this boat for this race.

This should have been a really fun trip, a great story for the kids and grandkids about the time "I was in the Transpac Ocean Race" but instead it was a nightmare. I kind of think it was probably not much better on some of the other boats, because of the anger management, the stupidity of doing things the hard way on the basis of "because that is the way it is done".

Minne, when you sail do you like to enjoy it? If you went sailing with me I would really want you and everyone else to enjoy it, especially if we were going to be on the boat nonstop for say three weeks. I would want you to have a shower too. If I went sailing with someone who was angry, arrogant, and cruel I would not enjoy it.

Kind of a weird vacation. Get in a small confined space, go out to the middle of the ocean where I cannot get away from anyone and be treated all kinds of wrong by a crazy screaming lady and her crazy screaming partner. Nope, does not sound like fun to me.

If anyone comes sailing with me I will let them keep their socks.
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  #933  
Old 08-23-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

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Originally Posted by tomandchris View Post
Please do not olet what has become a ridiculous thread reach 1000 posts. Show some restraint and STOP!
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  #934  
Old 08-23-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

I *STILL* want to know how they got in the race in the first place. At first glance they don't look like they could have got into the Bermuda race(s). How many of them did the Safety-At-Sea training?
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  #935  
Old 08-23-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2gmtrans View Post
Minne, when you sail do you like to enjoy it? If you went sailing with me I would really want you and everyone else to enjoy it, especially if we were going to be on the boat nonstop for say three weeks. I would want you to have a shower too. If I went sailing with someone who was angry, arrogant, and cruel I would not enjoy it.
Mark, I agree with many of your points. But I also have to say that you really are missing the point of serious racing. Enjoyment in racing comes from winning. And winning requires a lot of the stuff you list above that makes you uncomfortable. It's the desire to win that allows racers to endure the discomfort.

All that means is that you're probably not a racing kind of guy. You like showers. I'm a "semi-racing" kind of guy. I love to race - and can forego the showers, but my boats will be heavy because I want good food and plenty of water.

But there's absolutely nothing wrong with the racing mindset. This is an important thing to keep in mind in this debate. I admire that mindset.

As in this example, where it goes wrong is when someone plans like they're a serious racer (maybe because they are advised by a serious racer on how to plan) - when, in fact, they're not very good at sailing in the first place. Dangerous combo.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-23-2013 at 10:28 AM.
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  #936  
Old 08-23-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
As in this example, where it goes wrong is when someone plans like they're a serious racer (maybe because they are advised by a serious racer on how to plan) - when, in fact, they're not very good at sailing in the first place. Dangerous combo.
Oh and then the 86 year old . . . and the last minute cobbled together crew like it was a coastal delivery . . . and the personality disorders . . . lack of leadership . . . and then there is the little matter of Jane . . ..

I don't think anyone "planned as if they were a serious racer" I think Harry didn't plan at all or was too harried to carry out whatever plans he might have had . . ..
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  #937  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
A couple of folks have made reference to Gatorade.

Are you drinking the bottled stuff or the crystals. I have a condition that necessitates me increasing my electrolytes and salt. I drink tank water with Gatorade crystals. My crew drinks tank water either with Gatorade, iced tea or straight. I do carry medicinal ginger ale.

Bottled water is a ridiculous provision on a boat. I have some in the ditch bag, period.
And all this time I thought the only medicinal beverage was rum!

Actually someone at work said they had an upset stomach and was surprised when I got them a ginger ale and how well it works.

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  #938  
Old 08-23-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

After thinking about this a bunch, and explaining the thread to my wife, I've come to a simple conclusion of my own, based on what I've read so far - yes Harry hasn't been heard, so this is based on what I know so far. I'll state it as if I'm talking to Harry, because that's the simplest way to explain it.

To Harry:

1) If you don't know how to use your spinnaker in a downwind race, you can't claim that you purposely left with partially full tanks. Simple as that.

EVERYTHING else flowed from that part of the chain of events that likely started with your being rushed to start. The end result was destined to be the use of the autopilot. You didn't have the water to proceed quickly enough with your current steering skill level.

You weren't racing, you were going for the grandma-was-here pickle dish. You never told that to the crew, so they had no idea that was your true goal, no idea that the boat was going to be slower than normal due to no spinnaker, and therefore they were less than concerned about the tanks being topped off.

Part way through, when your spinnakerless progress was slow, and after the crew had time to think about it, the water situation became evident. It was a real eye-opener to the crew. Two members of your crew realized it long before you did.

Now for part 2.

You lacked the leadership skills to setup a contructive environment where crew ideas would be valued, or at the very least you didn't have the listening skills to listen to them. That coupled with #1, meant that a "vehemment disagreement" was preordanied. Again, simple as that.

Either way, when the crew realized their predicament and you could not, they were forced to act to save their own hides.

In my opinion, Dawg and Jake saved your life, your wife's life, and grandma's life, at the cost of the pickle dish. I think you should thank them, but I'm not sure you will.

The responsibility for the trip rests with you. From this (admittedly one-sided) account, you demonstrated a lack of leadership, planning, and organization. You never communicated your true goal, which is against leadership 101 principles, if not downright devious. You needlessly endangered others.

---

That is all about your behaviours, it's not meant to condemn you. Far from it. And hearing your side of things would be wonderful for the sailing community -- for those eager to learn and those who follow us. If my summary is wrong please tell me. If my summary is correct, there's even more for us to learn from each other (like how to not be rushed at the start). For we all need to learn, progress, and move on.

I'm sincerely hoping you participate. None of us are perfect.

Regards,
Brad

PS. To Dawg and Jake: Best you can do in these situations is remember that feelings are facts. Communicate that you are scared. Say it, and say why. Say it again, and why. It helps others start to realize that maybe things aren't going well.
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Last edited by Bene505; 08-23-2013 at 12:17 PM.
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  #939  
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

^^^^^^^^^This!
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Old 08-23-2013
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Re: Mutiny at Dawn - Transpac Race 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene505 View Post
After thinking about this a bunch, and explaining the thread to my wife, I've come to a simple conclusion of my own, based on what I've read so far - yes Harry hasn't been heard, so this is based on what I know so far. I'll state it as if I'm talking to Harry, because that's the simplest way to explain it.

To Harry:

1) If you don't know how to use your spinnaker in a downwind race, you can't claim that you purposely left with partially full tanks. Simple as that.

EVERYTHING else flowed from that part of the chain of events that likely started with your being rushed to start. The end result was destined to be the use of the autopilot. You didn't have the water to proceed quickly enough with your current steering skill level.

You weren't racing, you were going for the grandma-was-here pickle dish. You never told that to the crew, so they had no idea that was your true goal, no idea that the boat was going to be slower than normal due to no spinnaker, and therefore they were less than concerned about the tanks being topped off.

Part way through, when your spinnakerless progress was slow, and after the crew had time to think about it, the water situation became evident. It was a real eye-opener to the crew. Two members of your crew realized it long before you did.

Now for part 2.

You lacked the leadership skills to setup a contructive environment where crew ideas would be valued, or at the very least you didn't have the listening skills to listen to them. That coupled with #1, meant that a "vehemment disagreement" was preordanied. Again, simple as that.

Either way, when the crew realized their predicament and you could not, they were forced to act to save their own hides.

In my opinion, Dawg and Jake saved your life, your wife's life, and grandma's life, at the cost of the pickle dish. I think you should thank them, but I'm not sure you will.

The responsibility for the trip rests with you. From this (admittedly one-sided) account, you demonstrated a lack of leadership, planning, and organization. You never communicated your true goal, which is against leadership 101 principles, if not downright devious. You needlessly endangered others.

---

That is all about your behaviours, it's not meant to condemn you. Far from it. And hearing your side of things would be wonderful for the sailing community -- for those eager to learn and those who follow us. If my summary is wrong please tell me. If my summary is correct, there's even more for us to learn from each other (like how to not be rushed at the start). For we all need to learn, progress, and move on.

I'm sincerely hoping you participate. None of us are perfect.

Regards,
Brad

PS. To Dawg and Jake: Best you can do in these situations is remember that feelings are facts. Communicate that you are scared. Say it, and say why. Say it again, and why. It helps others start to realize that maybe things aren't going well.
So how did Jake and Dawg save their lives? Were they in danger?
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