70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay... - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 94 Old 08-08-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...

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I would definitely go with inboom over inmast. Just was not an option when I bought the boat. Short of cost, not sure I see any benefit of inmast over inboom.

B
Of course, all this is pure speculation on my part, who knows if it being a furling mast had anything at all to do with the rig failure... No doubt, GMT knows how to properly engineer these things...

My first thought regarding the dismasting, however, was to wonder whether they might have been sailing under a headsail alone, without the main to act as a reinforcing/stabilizing influence in the event of such a 'sudden stop', and the massive inertia that could put on the rig.. A second glance at the photos, however, quickly confirmed they did have the main unfurled...

Nevertheless, one thing I never like to see, are boats beating to weather in a good blow, under headsail alone... I'm afraid many people don't appreciate the importance the mainsail in such a scenario, and how helpful the stabilizing effect even a deeply reefed main can have, in helping to reduce mast pumping, and keeping the mast in column...

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Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...

So, imagine for a moment the boat in the bottom pic, sailing 6-7kts with the sails under load going from 6-7 kts to 0 kts in a heartbeat ? Yeah, I could see the rig failing.

She may have been wearing her staysail as well

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post #23 of 94 Old 08-08-2013
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Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...

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Of course, all this is pure speculation on my part, who knows if it being a furling mast had anything at all to do with the rig failure... No doubt, GMT knows how to properly engineer these things...

My first thought regarding the dismasting, however, was to wonder whether they might have been sailing under a headsail alone, without the main to act as a reinforcing/stabilizing influence in the event of such a 'sudden stop', and the massive inertia that could put on the rig.. A second glance at the photos, however, quickly confirmed they did have the main unfurled...

Nevertheless, one thing I never like to see, are boats beating to weather in a good blow, under headsail alone... I'm afraid many people don't appreciate the importance the mainsail in such a scenario, and how helpful the stabilizing effect even a deeply reefed main can have, in helping to reduce mast pumping, and keeping the mast in column...
WHen beating to weather the main is by and far the best sail. Excluding for a moment where the center of effort is placed (and the tendency for a weather helm which is important), the main allows you to tack with little energy and effort from the crew. Especially if the crew is tired, you can come about to the same angle (more or less) and it is easy-cheesy.

Going to weather with just a jib is a typical novice mistake (IMHO).

Now when I run, especially if I am close to a dead run (which I hate to do), I will often go with just the jib. If I run the main, depending on the wind, I typically set a preventer. I assume you do too?

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post #24 of 94 Old 08-08-2013
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Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...

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So, imagine for a moment the boat in the bottom pic, sailing 6-7kts with the sails under load going from 6-7 kts to 0 kts in a heartbeat ? Yeah, I could see the rig failing.

She may have been wearing her staysail as well
I dont know Poopy. I bet there was some give when he hit (probably as he listed over). I am just guessing, but I doubt he went straight to zero like he hit a brick wall. I have no doubt he came to a stop pretty quickly though. But still, how would that compare to a hard Jibe or tack in strong winds, which that boat should take?

This is probably a Jeff or Bob question, like Jon said earlier.

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post #25 of 94 Old 08-08-2013
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Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...

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This is probably a Jeff or Bob question, like Jon said earlier.
Oh hell yeah, I'm kinda waiting to hear

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post #26 of 94 Old 08-08-2013
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Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...

I think you're on to something with the compression theory. I used to design and build composite airplanes. Carbon fibre parts are designed for specific load paths and while they do a superb job loads they do not yield. A carbon fibre part will continue to deflect until you reach its breaking point and then it typically cracks/shatters. Since the mast was designed to handle lateral loads, not compressive loads (other than those necessary to keep the mast upright), if the grounding did force the keel up, it's quite possible that could have been enough compressive force to cause the mast to break.
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Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...

"Yacht-Rock Collision"

Heh, I wonder if Michael Mcdonald or Christopher Cross was coming from the speakers at the time.
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post #28 of 94 Old 08-08-2013
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Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...

This may have been a navigation error but it is also true that there are still PLENTY of uncharted or vaguely charted rocks lurking just under the surface. Sailing close to shore is always somewhat a game of Russian Roulette. No one wants to be credited with finding the precise coordinates of the next uncharted rock.

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post #29 of 94 Old 08-08-2013
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Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...

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Here it is from Garmin Mapsource.

BTW, I have sailed through there many times and always stay close to Lasell I.

Tim,
For those of us who do not know the area, could you please show us where this boat went aground and what his route was and (if different) should have been. Would he have been sailing between Lasell I and Mouse I or trying to get between Lasell and Goose Rock?
Thanks
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post #30 of 94 Old 08-08-2013
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Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...

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Tim,
For those of us who do not know the area, could you please show us where this boat went aground and what his route was and (if different) should have been. Would he have been sailing between Lasell I and Mouse I or trying to get between Lasell and Goose Rock?
Thanks
I have no idea which rocks they hit or what course they were steering.

A straight course from Camden harbor(known departure port) and Pulpit harbor(supposed destination) puts you right through the rocks NE of Goose Rock. Maybe their chart plotter had the detail filtered out when selecting the range to include both harbors. Maybe they did not zoom in to an adequate range to show that detail and also traced their route to ensure there were no obstructions.

This a only a guess and only the crew of that boat know exactly what happened.
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