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JonEisberg 08-08-2013 09:14 AM

70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...
 
Ouch...

A good opportunity for us, perhaps, to divert the conversation to someone else's screwup... :-)

Coast Guard, Wayfarer Marine respond to sailboat aground off Lasell Island | PenBay Pilot

I'm guessing there will be a serious reduction in her $2.4 million asking price....ARCHANGEL is a Hylas 70, I saw her in Hampton a couple of years ago prior to the start of the Caribbean 1500, where she was the "flagship" of that year's fleet...

David Walters Yachts

I can't imagine being aboard a boat of that size, and having the rig come down, that would have to be a terrifying experience... Amazing no one was seriously hurt, or worse...

I'd love to see how that area is displayed on electronic charts of the area, how it compares with my paper, whether there is any discrepancy... Nigel Calder addresses the issues that arise in the conversion of existing charts to digital in HOW TO READ A NAUTICAL CHART, and actually uses the ledge at the entrance to Camden harbor, just off Wayfarer, as an example of how the cartography of an area of such detail can be altered on an e-chart... If anyone could post a pic of how the detail of the area around E Goose Rock shows electronically, it might be interesting...

How accurate are our charts? - Ocean Navigator - January/February 2003

Sounds like he was headed for Pulpit Harbor perhaps? I'm guessing since it is a charter yacht, they'd probably been thru that passage numerous times before... I'm gonna hazard a guess that a degree of 'complacency' might have played a role in this one, perhaps a somewhat casual reliance on waypoints used previously thru a rather tight passage for a boat of that size, a possibility that would be even further increased by the absolutely perfect weather and sailing conditions at the time... The tide may have just begun to ebb out of Penobscot Bay around that time, which could have played a role in setting them down on that ledge, presuming they were on a course to just clear the southern tip of Lasell Island...

At any rate, whenever a very experienced professional captain puts a multi-million dollar yacht on the rocks in a heavily trafficked, well charted area, on a perfect summer afternoon, it should serve as a cautionary reminder that the sort of electronic 'piloting' most of us are doing today certainly isn't foolproof... :-)

I'd really be curious to see what the keel looks like... Wouldn't at all be surprised, if some rep from Hylas is already at Wayfarer, with a 150 X 10 foot 'curtain' at the ready... :-)

Just glad nobody was hurt, boats can always be fixed...


http://www.penbaypilot.com/sites/def...0wrecklede.jpg

night0wl 08-08-2013 09:31 AM

Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...
 
Maybe some sort of mechanical failure?

Tim R. 08-08-2013 09:36 AM

Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...
 
Here it is from Garmin Mapsource.

BTW, I have sailed through there many times and always stay close to Lasell I.

http://tkronaboat.com/htdocs/miscphotos/Untitled.jpg

Cruisingdad 08-08-2013 09:43 AM

Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JonEisberg (Post 1070868)
Ouch...

A good opportunity for us, perhaps, to divert the conversation to someone else's screwup... :-)

Coast Guard, Wayfarer Marine respond to sailboat aground off Lasell Island | PenBay Pilot

I'm guessing there will be a serious reduction in her $2.4 million asking price....ARCHANGEL is a Hylas 70, I saw her in Hampton a couple of years ago prior to the start of the Caribbean 1500, where she was the "flagship" of that year's fleet...

David Walters Yachts

I can't imagine being aboard a boat of that size, and having the rig come down, that would have to be a terrifying experience... Amazing no one was seriously hurt, or worse...

I'd love to see how that area is displayed on electronic charts of the area, how it compares with my paper, whether there is any discrepancy... Nigel Calder addresses the issues that arise in the conversion of existing charts to digital in HOW TO READ A NAUTICAL CHART, and actually uses the ledge at the entrance to Camden harbor, just off Wayfarer, as an example of how the cartography of an area of such detail can be altered on an e-chart... If anyone could post a pic of how the detail of the area around E Goose Rock shows electronically, it might be interesting...

How accurate are our charts? - Ocean Navigator - January/February 2003

Sounds like he was headed for Pulpit Harbor perhaps? I'm guessing since it is a charter yacht, they'd probably been thru that passage numerous times before... I'm gonna hazard a guess that a degree of 'complacency' might have played a role in this one, perhaps a somewhat casual reliance on waypoints used previously thru a rather tight passage for a boat of that size, a possibility that would be even further increased by the absolutely perfect weather and sailing conditions at the time... The tide may have just begun to ebb out of Penobscot Bay around that time, which could have played a role in setting them down on that ledge, presuming they were on a course to just clear the southern tip of Lasell Island...

At any rate, whenever a very experienced professional captain puts a multi-million dollar yacht on the rocks in a heavily trafficked, well charted area, on a perfect summer afternoon, it should serve as a cautionary reminder that the sort of electronic 'piloting' most of us are doing today certainly isn't foolproof... :-)

I'd really be curious to see what the keel looks like... Wouldn't at all be surprised, if some rep from Hylas is already at Wayfarer, with a 150 X 10 foot 'curtain' at the ready... :-)

Just glad nobody was hurt, boats can always be fixed...


http://www.penbaypilot.com/sites/def...0wrecklede.jpg

I am a bit surprised that a pro capt would do that too. See, if he had kept his draft at 6 feet like I have been saying, they would have been fine (snicker).

Hey Jon, I understand going from 6-7 kts down to zero would put a lot of stress on the rigging, but I am a bit surprised it demasted the boat. Is that unusual? Does that surprise you?

Brian

mad_machine 08-08-2013 09:55 AM

Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...
 
I have read a few articles on how our reliance on electronic charts and plotters had increased the groundings, accidents, and sinkings. Once, when paper charts were the norm and you had to take physical readings, you never really knew exactly where you were. You had to fudge it a bit and give known hazards (and some suspected ones) a wide berth.

With the "accuracy" of electronic charts and GPS, many sailors and powerboaters are cutting it a lot closer, thinking that what they see on the chart is really there and that the GPS is telling them exactly where they are on that chart.

This does not take into consideration shifting bars, mismarked hazards, and even other boats that may have sunk there.

I have spent too much time with a paper charts to cut it close, I prefer a good wide safety area around my boat

Tim R. 08-08-2013 09:59 AM

Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...
 
Looks like it is back in Camden now. The track on Marinetraffic.com looks a little off though.

http://tkronaboat.com/htdocs/miscphotos/Untitled1.jpg

JonEisberg 08-08-2013 10:21 AM

Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim R. (Post 1070875)
Here it is from Garmin Mapsource.

BTW, I have sailed through there many times and always stay close to Lasell I.

http://tkronaboat.com/htdocs/miscphotos/Untitled.jpg

Thanks, Tim... no discrepancies that I can see, looks virtually the same as my paper chart of the area...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruisingdad (Post 1070876)

Hey Jon, I understand going from 6-7 kts down to zero would put a lot of stress on the rigging, but I am a bit surprised it demasted the boat. Is that unusual? Does that surprise you?

Brian

Yes, the dismasting surprised me, as well...

Only thing I can figure, is that the grounding exerted such a violent upwards pressure on the keel-stepped mast, and forced it to buckle... The rig on that boat is carbon fiber, which being somewhat 'brittle' (for lack of a better word), might have been less forgiving than, say, aluminum to such a violent shock... it may actually speak to the integrity and overall strength of the chainplates and shrouds on that boat, that a massive compressive force was put on the mast from the keel, but the standing rigging allowed no movement to help absorb the shock... On the other hand, perhaps the impact did cause a failure of a chainplate, and subsequent loss of the rig... That's the only thing I can think of, at the moment... I suspect we might have a better idea if we'd actually witnessed the grounding occur, but I'm guessing it all started with a dramatic movement upwards of the keel, even a deflection of the bottom by an inch or so might be more than sufficient to cause a failure somewhere else in such a "highly strung" rig...

Be interesting to see what Jeff H or Bob P might surmise...

smurphny 08-08-2013 10:40 AM

Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...
 
It looks as if the starboard shroud(s) parted. It's not unusual for the rig to come down in a real dead-stop. There's an awful lot of inertia in the weight of all that structure if it all of a sudden puts strain on one wire/plate/fitting.

Does anyone think it's a copyright violation to post screen shots of nav software? I was going to post a shot of C-Max/Jeppesen charts but though twice about whether they may object.

I've done a lot of sea kayaking around this area. It's the kingdom of ROCKS!:)

Cruisingdad 08-08-2013 10:47 AM

Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smurphny (Post 1070927)
It looks as if the starboard shroud(s) parted. It's not unusual for the rig to come down in a real dead-stop. There's an awful lot of inertia in the weight of all that structure if it all of a sudden puts strain on one wire/plate/fitting.

Does anyone think it's a copyright violation to post screen shots of nav software? I was going to post a shot of C-Max/Jeppesen charts but though twice about whether they may object.

I've done a lot of sea kayaking around this area. It's the kingdom of ROCKS!:)

Really? I have seen (and been on a few) hard groundings and never seen a rig come down or worry about it.

Maybe Hylas is experimenting with the B&R rig? (hehe, just a joke, duck and run).

Jon, I am not convinced a single chain plate would bring down that rig unless they had multiple shourds/stays on it... and even then...??? Wouldn't they have to have at least two failures or more? Again, assuming they are not using the B&R rig, am I wrong? I really don't know.

I like your compression theory the best.

Brian

smurphny 08-08-2013 10:55 AM

Re: 70' Hylas grounded, dismasted in Penobscot Bay...
 
You're probably right. Looking at the picture again, it looks as if the shrouds may actually still be attached. Wasn't there another recent thread in which a fiber mast let go?


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