Vanishing Seamanship - Page 8 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree68Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #71  
Old 08-12-2013
Water Lover
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA (Heron, Elephant Butte lakes); Arizona (Lake Pleasant)
Posts: 695
Thanks: 3
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 5
rgscpat is on a distinguished road
Re: Vanishing Seamanship

The analogy to driving a car might be that most people don't start out at age 15 or 16 or whatever by learning to drive an 18-wheeler tractor-trailer rig hauling explosives... or start out driving one of Australia's "road trains".

Although when I was 16, I was backing a boat trailer down the ramp... but it wasn't a particularly big trailer or boat.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #72  
Old 08-12-2013
poopdeckpappy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,685
Thanks: 25
Thanked 39 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 10
poopdeckpappy has a spectacular aura about poopdeckpappy has a spectacular aura about
Re: Vanishing Seamanship

How secure is GPS
__________________
1978 Tayana 37

Freedom comes when youíre ready to sail away. True freedom comes when you donít have to return


Cut off from the land that bore us, betrayed by the land we find, where the brightest have gone before us and the dullest remain behind, .......but stand to your glasses, steady,.......tis all we have left to prize, raise a cup to the dead already, hurrah for the next that dies
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #73  
Old 08-12-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: BC coast
Posts: 119
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Uricanejack is on a distinguished road
Re: Vanishing Seamanship

When I were a lad. The Older and wiser sailors complained about.
The lack of respect for our elders
The music I listened to.
Too much reliance on new-fangled technology like, sounders and RDF even binoculars.
And the losses of traditional seaman like skillís such as hand lead lines, log lines and spotting islands from cloud formations or swell variations.
And my generations general lack of seamanship.
Now I am older I can complain about everyone elseís lack of seamanship. And point out to all and sundry about how back in my day we were so much better.
Iím sure my Viking ancestors and each generation since have complained about the new lateen sails and rudders and compasses there descendants started using. Never mind Donkey engines Steam, Diesel down to the present day. And when todays new sailors grow old and experienced they will complain about the next and there loss of traditional seamanship.
Whatís changed?
To the grumpy old fart who once asked me if I knew the difference between a hickory fid and a marlin spike. The answer is yes. Fortunately another old sailor showed me once upon a time long ago. Heíd be horrified by my use of tape instead of twine, a screwdriver instead of a spike, a mallet instead of rolling.
What is the world coming to?
I sail for recreation, as do many thousands of otherís most with limited experience, a little bit of common sense and an ability to learn from our errors. We do just fine
A comparatively small number are unfortunate. There errors happen at a time when they all line up with other unfortunate circumstances which allow an accident to happen involving the loss of a vessel and or life.
There but for the grace of my god go I
JimMcGee likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to Uricanejack For This Useful Post:
gamayun (08-13-2013)
  #74  
Old 08-12-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: BC coast
Posts: 119
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Uricanejack is on a distinguished road
Re: Vanishing Seamanship

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
How about a vote for the best navigator of all time?

I'll say captain cook.

What say you tribe?
Bligh?
TTC likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #75  
Old 08-12-2013
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 34
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
MarkBarrett is on a distinguished road
Re: Vanishing Seamanship

i need to ship now and go to sail on everytime..........
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #76  
Old 08-12-2013
aprilsails's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 50
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 2
aprilsails is on a distinguished road
Re: Vanishing Seamanship

I find the OP's post beginning odd especially in reference to how "high tech" gizmos are making sailors take risks or make mistakes that they wouldn't have made if they did things the old fashioned way.

I learned how to sail on Tall Ships. The first ship I sailed with had no GPS unit for the first 3 summers I spent onboard. When we went down the East Coast to Boston we finally invested in a haldheld GPS which was used to call in out position once a day for the Tall Ship races. We did have a depth sounder, a VHF radio, and a handheld windmeter but that was the extent of our high tech toys. We did speed estimates using a timer and a floating bottle on a rope and all of our fixes were done using dead reckoning and line of site navigation, as well as celestial when we were offshore.

So for a young sailor (29) I have a strong foundation in very traditional seamanship. That being said, I appreciate the convenience of GPS, love my speedometer, and I am a very cautious sailor. Years of navigating with a 12' draught and not being certain where the hell I really was except for once every 15 - 30 minutes means that I stay in the deep water and well shy of the shallows. My husband was laughing at me when we sailed a 5' draft boat around and I was avoiding areas charted at 15'.

It should be noted that I am absolutely terrible at sail trim since I suck at dealing with anything that doesn't have squares or isn't a dinghy. I'm going to take a course soon to learn how to handle a spinnaker.
gamayun likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #77  
Old 08-12-2013
JimMcGee's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Barnegat Bay, NJ
Posts: 1,401
Thanks: 22
Thanked 32 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 10
JimMcGee is on a distinguished road
Re: Vanishing Seamanship

If you're a new boater what you'll see in articles, read in ads and hear at boat shows is that GPS is accurate to within 3 feet.

You will hear it over and over as accepted fact. You will NOT hear about how the old the chart data is, that the shoals shift with every storm or that some hazards are simply put in the wrong place on the chart.

You are used to turn-by-turn directions in your car. When you're constantly told how accurate these systems are why would you assume differently?

Experience teaches you to keep lots of distance between yourself and hazards.
__________________
95 Catalina 30 Island Time

ďIf a man is to be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most" - E.B. White
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #78  
Old 08-12-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,701
Thanks: 31
Thanked 30 Times in 27 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: Vanishing Seamanship

Once again I'll be your goat.
Last year cruised my PSC34. No trouble in/out pump outs/fuel docks any tight stop. No bow thruster just back down on springline to get the bow out. This year 46' boat with all the geegaws- bow thruster etc. Whole new ballpark. Whole new set of skills to learn. New level of stress as I'm moving my house not a weekend cottage. Thing is any time I can watch my slip mates do it I watch and learn. Any time I can get an experienced hand coach me I listen and learn. At end of the day many have no respect for the skillset so don't learn it even if on the water for years. They don't respect others, their lives and property. Without that basic respect for the sea and others the motivation to gain seamanship is not there. Whether being more technologically connected as made us less attached to each other and the realities of the world can be argued but as my grandmother once told me "when you stop learning you better be dead or you soon will be".
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #79  
Old 08-12-2013
capta's Avatar
Master Mariner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere in the Windward or Leeward Islands
Posts: 1,448
Thanks: 13
Thanked 69 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 4
capta is on a distinguished road
Re: Vanishing Seamanship

Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
"The statistics doe not show an increase ( even if you look at the last couple of years) in incidents or rescues. They in fact show relatively the same numbers. The Internet has helped publicize them more. We all can point to our own personal stories of ineptitude and experiences with others as you have, but that really doesn't mean overall there has been an increase percentage wise. Again the stats show pretty much static."

Be that as it may be, the reality is apparently not showing up in those statistics.
There were three sailing vessel losses with fatalities over the last year or so off the California coast where there had never been a fatality in any of the three races before.
The abandonment of numerous vessels crossing from the east coast to Bermuda is unprecedented over the last three years. Thirty foot seas (or more) and seventy knot winds are not a rarity on a crossing from the east coast to Bermuda, in fact they are to be expected.
This post was not about the number of rescues the USCG does annually on coastal duties, but about experienced and sometimes professional captains losing or abandoning boats in situations that may be extreme, but certainly should not be life threatening.
The Bounty, Concordia and Astrid all had highly respected and experienced professional captains aboard at the time of their loss. If we keep losing tall ships at this rate, there will be none for our children's children to visit on the waterfront or sail on.
Even with the better communications today, I do believe that we are seeing a disproportionate loss of vessels operated by highly respected and experienced captains.
And please, guys, don't show those maps of the coasts of the US, UK or NZ showing the shipwrecks from the days before engines, electronic navigation and efficient rescues; that's just NOT the subject here.
__________________
"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #80  
Old 08-12-2013
Capt.aaron's Avatar
KNOT KNOWN
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Guanaja, Bay Islands, Honduras
Posts: 1,320
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Capt.aaron is on a distinguished road
Re: Vanishing Seamanship

I live in a town where captains are a dime a dozen. These yahoo's that are taking cattle-maran boats with over 100 guests, or dragging them around behind a skiff para-sailing. Even my good friend who is 100 ton master with his ASA instructing thing, all of 'em, when I watch them are in my opinion, pretty crappy boat handlers and problem solvers. I often wonder how they convinced themselves they where any good in the first place. Where does the confidence come from. I was as nervous as a knocked up Nun runn'n boats for 10 years before I felt worthy of my 6 pack. Now I'm going through the same thing as I move around 400 foot boats. It will be another 10 years before, even though I'm licensed, That I'll feel worthy and take full charge of my own tug and barge. I wish more of Today's captains had gotten some old school seamanship training and where honest with themselves about there ability's before these nautical disasters take place.
JimMcGee and capta like this.
__________________
" Some are boat wise and some are other wise"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Angle of Vanishing Stability shaile General Discussion (sailing related) 18 12-08-2011 09:06 PM
Professor Amos Vanishing Pads jarcher Gear & Maintenance 2 12-07-2011 07:54 AM
Angle of Vanishing Stability Grampian 30' 1974 akin_alan General Discussion (sailing related) 9 09-07-2010 04:42 PM
Bayfield 29, angle of vanishing stability celiro Sailboat Design and Construction 2 11-29-2007 05:19 PM
AVS - angle of vanishing stability stravaigin General Discussion (sailing related) 7 06-20-2007 12:55 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:24 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.