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  #11  
Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Overboard!

Damn, looks as if (3) went in, at about 40kt's? I bet that hurt? How come they are not hooked to the boat some way? Don't they have a 'jackline' across? Could they? How about the 'chase' boat, doing 40kt's WITH (4) outboards going full blast! I don't know which would worry me more?
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  #12  
Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Overboard!

An exciting moment in a one horse race
I was watching it on TV this morning, yes, they are spectacular machines, but if they can only race in flat calm water in less than 20 kts of wind, well, that's just not that interesting. They might as well just build sail-powered buggies and race on land. Go and look at some of the footage from older AC series, monohulls smashing through waves out on the ocean, that's what it should be about.
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  #13  
Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Overboard!

Perhaps that rule about "a person leaving" lost something in the translation. Getting washed overboard isn't the same as "I'm leaving now".

And when the yachts cost ten million apiece, yes, they are allowed to write their own rules. Especially when they race is governed by a Deed of Gift, over and above everything else.
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Re: Overboard!

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Perhaps that rule about "a person leaving" lost something in the translation. Getting washed overboard isn't the same as "I'm leaving now".

And when the yachts cost ten million apiece, yes, they are allowed to write their own rules. Especially when they race is governed by a Deed of Gift, over and above everything else.
Still, given the race umpire's ability to assess instantaneous penalties during the race for every conceivable infraction - such as sailing 'Out of Bounds' - I do find it rather remarkable that there is apparently none whatsoever for violating one of the most basic tenets of seamanship...

Namely, Don't Fall Off the Damn Boat!

Understanding Penalties ? America's Cup Experience


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Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Overboard!

Jon, I'm not sure there is any need for penalties in that instance. After all, if a man is lost overboard, ergh, excuse me, if a man leaves the boat, one must assume that since they started with the minimum number of crew that they needed, that boat will now be shorthanded, undercrewed, underpowered, and put at a competitive disadvantage.

Self-penalizing.

Don't you think?
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Re: Overboard!

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Jon, I'm not sure there is any need for penalties in that instance. After all, if a man is lost overboard, ergh, excuse me, if a man leaves the boat, one must assume that since they started with the minimum number of crew that they needed, that boat will now be shorthanded, undercrewed, underpowered, and put at a competitive disadvantage.

Self-penalizing.

Don't you think?
Sure, that's a valid point, I suppose... Still, it seems such a screwup is still worthy of a penalty... If a NASCAR or Indy driver locks up his brakes coming into the pits and breaks the leg of one of his crew, he has surely 'self-penalized' himself by having to rely on a replacement, and the time lost... Still, he's gonna be assessed a drive-thru or stop and go penalty in addition, and that only seems fair, to me...

Another awesome race today, huh? Certainly highlights the pitfalls of 'complexity' in a sailing craft :-) The whole boat is rendered useless, when something like this blows a seal...





One of the commentators put it best, along the lines of "The major challenge for each team so far has not been the opposition, but simply getting your boat to the finish line..."
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Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Overboard!

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well i think.......................never mind.
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Re: Overboard!

Jon, hitting your own pit crew in a car race is hardly the same as LOSING part of the "engine" on your sailboat. Every man on a Cup boat is a piece of the engine. Lose a man, and you lose someone who was supposed to be working a winch or some other vital part, and there's no one there to replace them, even if they've cross-trained. Plus of course you've lost ballast.

Hey, five guys get together to have a private poker game. They all light up cigars. So? That's their choice, by mutual agreement. Same thing with the AC, it is a private club, really, no matter how "open" it is. Governed by the Deed of Gift, even if the courts have allowed screwing around with that.

So if all the "gentlemen" in the event agree that you can lose crew...really, who's going to file the protest if they've all agreed to play that way?
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Re: Overboard!

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Jon, hitting your own pit crew in a car race is hardly the same as LOSING part of the "engine" on your sailboat. Every man on a Cup boat is a piece of the engine. Lose a man, and you lose someone who was supposed to be working a winch or some other vital part, and there's no one there to replace them, even if they've cross-trained. Plus of course you've lost ballast.
Hmmm, I'm not so sure the ballast of an individual crewmember is very critical on these boats, I'm sure they'd happily trade it for the weight reduction:-)

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Hey, five guys get together to have a private poker game. They all light up cigars. So? That's their choice, by mutual agreement. Same thing with the AC, it is a private club, really, no matter how "open" it is. Governed by the Deed of Gift, even if the courts have allowed screwing around with that.

So if all the "gentlemen" in the event agree that you can lose crew...really, who's going to file the protest if they've all agreed to play that way?
You're right, of course - their game, their rules...

I'm just old-fashioned about this, I suppose... Losing crew overboard, and being free to continue sailing as if nothing at all had gone amiss, without any penalty beyond the loss of those 'hands on deck', is so fundamentally in opposition to the sort of sailing the rest of us do, it seems to just further the notion that this AC Series is no more than some X-Games spectacle, where some participants are expected to bite the dust, or left dangling from some snow fencing...

I'm not well-versed on the racing rules elsewhere, but can anyone cite another form of racing where a crew can be left in a yacht's wake without suffering any penalty whatsoever? Again, given how the technology makes it so easy for a boat to have to give back a few boat lengths for an infraction of the rules, it simply seems to me there should be SOME sort of penalty assessed for the loss of crew overboard...

Hopelessly quaint notion, I realize... :-)
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Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Overboard!

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Hmmm, I'm not so sure the ballast of an individual crewmember is very critical on these boats, I'm sure they'd happily trade it for the weight reduction:-)



You're right, of course - their game, their rules...

I'm just old-fashioned about this, I suppose... Losing crew overboard, and being free to continue sailing as if nothing at all had gone amiss, without any penalty beyond the loss of those 'hands on deck', is so fundamentally in opposition to the sort of sailing the rest of us do, it seems to just further the notion that this AC Series is no more than some X-Games spectacle, where some participants are expected to bite the dust, or left dangling from some snow fencing...

I'm not well-versed on the racing rules elsewhere, but can anyone cite another form of racing where a crew can be left in a yacht's wake without suffering any penalty whatsoever? Again, given how the technology makes it so easy for a boat to have to give back a few boat lengths for an infraction of the rules, it simply seems to me there should be SOME sort of penalty assessed for the loss of crew overboard...
Hopelessly quaint notion, I realize... :-)
Jon, I believe you got the point of my post. I agree wholeheartedly with you and I am totally disappointed that this "club" has left traditional sailing rules in the dust, even if their gear has evolved to a new level.
Two grinders is over 500 pounds I would guess, and in a system where ounces count, I think a severe penalty should be assessed, as I suggested, like re-rounding the last mark. Then team NZ felt that they could remove how much weight of broken fairing and still race the second race? If you were to correlate that to Nascar, wouldn't that be like racing w/o the hood or roof?
I was so excited by the idea of foiling and high speed sailing, but I am rapidly losing respect for this whole AC event. Too bad they can't keep the traditional values of sailing even if their boats are a tiny bit nontraditional.
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