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  #11  
Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Do marina liveaboards dump their s@!^ in the river?

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Originally Posted by mad_machine View Post
Like the rules or hate them, I am glad for them. Having lived on the water since I was an infant (father was navy) I can remember when marinas all smelled like cesspools.....
I'm glad for some of them and prohibiting discharge in or near marinas just makes all the sense in the world.

It's the prohibition until 3 miles offshore, which is simply the limit of the States rights to Federal waterways, is ridiculous. No science, it's politics. Ironically, there have actually been fish kills due to insufficient nutrients. Gross but true. It should all be in balance, not extremes. No large ships dumping makes sense, the environment can't handle the concentration. A recreational boater discharging 10 gallons near the mouth of the Bay will be dilluted beyond relevance within seconds. Sea life itself discharges vastly more than we do, and yes, you swim in it now.

If one really cares, then pay the freight to upgrade all the municipal treatment plants. They have a long way to go, but the limited progress they have made is as likely to have improved the cesspool as boater restrictions.
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Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Do marina liveaboards dump their s@!^ in the river?

I don't think you can just rule out liveaboards, weekenders are pumping overboard too.
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Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Do marina liveaboards dump their s@!^ in the river?

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I'm glad for some of them and prohibiting discharge in or near marinas just makes all the sense in the world.

It's the prohibition until 3 miles offshore, which is simply the limit of the States rights to Federal waterways, is ridiculous. No science, it's politics. Ironically, there have actually been fish kills due to insufficient nutrients. Gross but true. It should all be in balance, not extremes. No large ships dumping makes sense, the environment can't handle the concentration. A recreational boater discharging 10 gallons near the mouth of the Bay will be dilluted beyond relevance within seconds. Sea life itself discharges vastly more than we do, and yes, you swim in it now.

Yeah, it's pretty ironic how quickly concern over this issue vanishes, the closer one gets to Paradise... :-)

There's not a pumpout within a couple of hundred miles of Georgetown, and of those boats that park themselves there for months on end, NOBODY is sailing out of Elizabeth Harbor and a few miles out into Exuma Sound, for the express purpose of dumping their holding tanks...


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Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Do marina liveaboards dump their s@!^ in the river?

To respond specifically to TF's question about what may be happening in HIS marina, I posit the following hypothesis:

The broken down boats with um...mentally questionable residents are most likely (but not 100% certainly) dumping/pumping overboard.

The boats with regular joe's are less likely, but may be pumping overboard. If they are, they are probably doing it infrequently, just until they can get to a pumpout, or have a "honey dipper" boat visit them.

Speaking as someone who lived aboard for around 6 months last year, I have a 5 gallon holding tank. Just enough for weekending, basically. I never pumped solid material overboard. Not once. I did however, make occasional, liquid deposits off of the finger dock, at night, when I was certain no one was watching. I know that many of the single males followed this practice.

The bath house was at the end of my dock, and my marina was small. I believe that this convenience helped keep fecal matter out of the water.

My sinks drain overboard, so I definitely discharged grey water from dish washing. I used no/low phosphate soaps in an attempt to be environmentally friendly.

Hope that helps answer your question.
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Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Do marina liveaboards dump their s@!^ in the river?

I think the boater party line is always going to be, "No one would ever do that."
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Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Do marina liveaboards dump their s@!^ in the river?

Even in the confines of Chesapeake Bay, the contribution of human waste from recreational boaters during the summer months is akin to a speck of fly $hit in a mountain of pepper. It's purely political and always has been. Also, you must keep in mind that that waters of Chesapeake and Delaware bays look the same during the dead of winter. Gee, kinda makes you wonder where all that crap is coming from, doesn't it?

The two places that I can truly say have benefited from holding tank laws are Boot Key Harbor in the lower Florida Keys, and Solomons Island Harbor in the lower Patuxent River in Maryland. As Solomons Harbor increased in popularity back in the early 1980s, huge number of sailboats began spending more and more time on the hook there, and nearly all were dumping the tanks at night. By morning the odoriferous waft from the harbor became horrendous. It only took a couple weeks of strict enforcement to eliminate the stench and the harbor returned to it's prior, retched water state within a couple months.

In Marathon's Book Key Harbor, where boats are stacked up like cordwood during the winter months, the pristine, turquoise waters eventually turned slate gray, the turtle grass began to die, lobsters disappeared, fishing went to Hell, and the water smelled just awful. The city took over the marina, two large pumpout boats went into full-time operation, and every boat in the harbor was pumped out on a weekly basis. Enforcement of Y-valve regulations became very strict, and two years later the harbor, while not fully recovered, looks pretty darned good. Underwater visibility at the City Dock was about 6-feet when I left there last March.

Unfortunately, the unabated discharges by outdated municipal wastewater treatment plants, agricultural and industrial discharges and other lesser sources, has severely effected our oceans, and has been for decades. It's the out of sight - out of mind mentality that people in general have, and politicians thrive upon, that created this problem in the first place. It's the "If we can't see it, feel it, or smell it, then it doesn't exist" at least in their minds. Therefore, it's not a problem. Doesn't anyone ever wonder who the idiot was that first dreamed up wastewater treatment plants got into his mind that if we put this stuff in the water it won't hurt anything. I'm not just talking about human waste, I mean anything.

For years Dupont was allowed to dump their chemical wastes offshore and did so just 12 miles out from the mouth of Delaware Bay. At least two major municipalities on the east coast hauled their trash offshore on strings of barges and bulldozed it overboard. Why do you think all that medical waste, syringes, etc..., washed up on the Jersey Shore for decades. At first the feds tried to blame the syringes on junkies tossing their syringes into the rivers, but that was never the case. Junkies don't dispose of syringes - they use them until they're no longer useable.

When will people learn that you cannot continue to dump crap in the water, water that they drink, obtain food from and use recreationally? As far as most people are concerned, they totally believe everything in the world is disposable. Cellular phones, TVs, microwave ovens, cars, trucks, busses, diapers, paper, you name it - even boats. I guess that's why some folks now think it's perfectly acceptable to consume what is referred to as "recycled water." Think about that the next time you turn on the spigot supplying your drinking water.

Gary

Last edited by travlineasy; 08-18-2013 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 08-18-2013
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I like Gary! Well said sir.
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Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Do marina liveaboards dump their s@!^ in the river?

"When will people learn that "
But Gary, if folks have been ignoring that for five or ten thousand years, why would anyone maintain the delusion that will change now? Cholera has been around for ages, ditto many other diseases from passing things around. In the US alone, the CDC estimates over a quarter of a million cases of totally avoidable food poisoning go to hospitals every year. A quarter of a million simple sanitary failures, and people are perfectly willing to accept that as normal.
So why expect some broke-ass marginal folks to change?

Which is why other folks pass laws, put red dye in tanks, issue fines and seize boats and ban liveaboards.

Of course, the truly polite folks simply chlorinate the entire harbor, as the Brits do in Georgetown. Quietly, late at night, at the same time that they come around to collect shoes that need polishing, or when they drop off the morning newspapers.

What, you keep a boat in some (ugh) slum where they don't do that?
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Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Do marina liveaboards dump their s@!^ in the river?

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Originally Posted by oceangirl View Post
I don't think you can just rule out liveaboards, weekenders are pumping overboard too.
IN many parts of VA, those pumpouts just move it from spot a (the boat) to spot b (the marina septic system, or worse the sewage line).

Spot B is where the major stuff is coming from. MD and VA each pumps tens of thousands of gallons of stuff directly in to the bay, each and every day and that is the "normal" operation....when something fails....that number jumps to hundreds of thousands of gallons.

I ran some numbers way back, about how IF every boat that is registered in DC/MD/VA, regardless of length, location, use, etc - was assumed to have a 15 gallon holding tank, said tank was full, and said boat was sitting on the bay AND they all dumped their load at the same time, it would not be any worse than the sewage treatment plants going in to overload and "spilling" the overload during one sunday football game, which Baltimore and DC do on a regular basis. As well as some of the landlocked cities further upstream, that have been known to have major infrastructure issues, if they have any infrastructure left at all...

While the gross factor is there, think about the bottom feeder critters who thrive on that stuff. If you understand what crab, catfish and shrimp actually eat....

Well you get the picture. Politicians want the common people to blame those "rich boaters" for the pollution, as it draws attention from the real cause.

Real Cause:
runoff from those mega malls and parking lots
runoff from AG activity (perdue, etc)
sewage treatment activity, deliberate and leaks

YMMV

Last edited by kd3pc; 08-18-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Do marina liveaboards dump their s@!^ in the river?

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Originally Posted by kd3pc View Post
IN many parts of VA, those pumpouts just move it from spot a (the boat) to spot b (the marina septic system, or worse the sewage line).

Spot B is where the major stuff is coming from. MD and VA each pumps tens of thousands of gallons of stuff directly in to the bay, each and every day and that is the "normal" operation....when something fails....that number jumps to hundreds of thousands of gallons.

I ran some numbers way back, about how IF every boat that is registered in DC/MD/VA, regardless of length, location, use, etc - was assumed to have a 15 gallon holding tank, said tank was full, and said boat was sitting on the bay AND they all dumped their load at the same time, it would not be any worse than the sewage treatment plants going in to overload and "spilling" the overload during one sunday football game, which Baltimore and DC do on a regular basis. As well as some of the landlocked cities further upstream, that have been known to have major infrastructure issues, if they have any infrastructure left at all...

While the gross factor is there, think about the bottom feeder critters who thrive on that stuff. If you understand what crab, catfish and shrimp actually eat....

Well you get the picture. Politicians want the common people to blame those "rich boaters" for the pollution, as it draws attention from the real cause.

Real Cause:
runoff from those mega malls and parking lots
runoff from AG activity (perdue, etc)
sewage treatment activity, deliberate and leaks

YMMV
Great argument. Filter feeder like you mentioned when they "dine" off of sewerage often are responsibilbe for hepititus and other diseases and infections in polluted beds.

What relevance is it to blame large polluters for the justification to allow small polluters to do the same. There is no justification for either to do it period. Every animal in the animal kindom knows you dont S&&T where you eat.

Are you condoning dumping your tanks then?

You are either part of the solution ( and every small bit helps) or you contribute to the problem.
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