An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 77 Old 08-20-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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You might be able to turn the key...but you can't steer..

I love those Spartan seacocks though. ;-)

WTH did he weld his bow pulpit up..
Yea, but isn't that the winter drain screw that they have the bonding wire connected to? I believe that is a no no per Mainesail.
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post #22 of 77 Old 08-20-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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With so many boats on the market offered by their owners, what is the advantage of using a broker? I think having detailed pictures saves one from this type of surprises and wasting time on unproductive trips to see a boat that has been misrepresented by the seller.
In general most boats above entry level prices are being sold by brokers,so if you want to buy one, you will buy it through a broker. Period.

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post #23 of 77 Old 08-20-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

I am thinking there must have been a misprint in the price, was it $7,950.00 or $795.00? I know they could not possibly be asking $79,500.00 real US Dollars for that thing. I figure the reason the broker was not wanting you to talk to the owner was the fact that you might tell him that he must be smoking something illegal if he thinks anyone will pay that much for the boat that he let go to pot, (small pun intended).

At least you got to go for a ride, and it was not quite a 20 hour round trip drive like my last expedition to look at a floating turd. I am just sitting tight for now, I figure in a couple of months the weather will really help me with the prices.

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post #24 of 77 Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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I think having detailed pictures saves one from this type of surprises and wasting time on unproductive trips to see a boat that has been misrepresented by the seller.
We learned quickly to ask exactly when the detailed pictures were taken. We once drove 4 hours to find out the photos were 4 neglectful years old. Big Broker too.


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post #25 of 77 Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

I'm surprised you stayed long enough to take pictures.

Do you have your own broker that sent you to this boat? If so, fire them.

Just for clarification, you have to be careful with the idea of having your own broker, unless you pay them separately from the transaction and no one does. They just split the sellers commission with the listing broker, so still technically work for the seller. On the other hand, they will want to work for you again and you presumably control a piece of their local reputation, so they should have some loyalty to you.

The brokers seem to be more honest with each other than broker vs. buyer. If your broker calls theirs, they are likely to get a straighter answer, knowing that reputations spread fast in the broker circles. Not fail safe, just improving the odds.

If you haven't had this false advertising experience before, consider it a right of passage. Then, approach this differently going forward.


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post #26 of 77 Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

The most jaw-dropping example of false advertising that we saw on our boat search was this, which is unbelievably still up:

1978 O'Day Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Note that it says "This boat is in excellent condition" and there are several pictures. In reality, this is a derelict boat. When Mr. Cthoops went up the ladder to look at it, the temporary wood framing around the top literally broke off as soon as he touched it. When he peeked below from the vantage point of the cockpit, what he saw inside was a mold-covered, stinking, rotting out area with bees flying around.

It was so bad that I literally could not believe it was the same boat. I actually went back inside and showed my printout of the ad to the guy and asked him, "Is this the same boat?" His response was, "Yeah, those pictures are kind of old."

You could not have paid me to take that boat. Needless to say, I'm really glad that we're not boat shopping any more. I was hoping that a higher budget would result in fewer experiences like this, but from some of the posts I've read it sounds like that is not necessarily the case.

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post #27 of 77 Old 08-21-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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I'm surprised you stayed long enough to take pictures.
If we didn't, we wouldn't have these wonderful pictures. But really, we hadn't seen the Sabre 38 and we were right there. We liked the Sabre 38 but not that particular boat.

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Do you have your own broker that sent you to this boat? If so, fire them.
We did.

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Just for clarification, you have to be careful with the idea of having your own broker, unless you pay them separately from the transaction and no one does. They just split the sellers commission with the listing broker, so still technically work for the seller. On the other hand, they will want to work for you again and you presumably control a piece of their local reputation, so they should have some loyalty to you.

The brokers seem to be more honest with each other than broker vs. buyer. If your broker calls theirs, they are likely to get a straighter answer, knowing that reputations spread fast in the broker circles. Not fail safe, just improving the odds.
I know there's a lot of disagreement with this but I see the buyer as the one who pays for everything. The buyer hands the down payment to the broker and that will be the broker's commission if the sale goes through. The buyer pays for all the inspections. And the buyer pays the seller if everything is cool. Without the buyer, no one gets paid.

I realize the seller believes he or she is paying the broker but in reality the seller never sees the commission pass through their hands. So in the strictest sense, the buyer is the one everyone should be trying to please. "The customer is always right" sort of thing.

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If you haven't had this false advertising experience before, consider it a right of passage. Then, approach this differently going forward.
I think we all know this doesn't have to be the case but few brokers are doing anything to change the present status quo, and they are the ones who best can. One broker we dealt with may be doing just that though.

Knot 10, as in not 10% (they charge 7%), has a different philosophy than the other brokers we've talked to. The guy on Kent Island said the Knot 10 philosophy is to only take boats that are priced to move. "It costs us money to keep boats in our listing inventory." He said boats that aren't getting any looks, and the seller won't drop the price, eventually get dropped from their listing. They are getting 3% less, so that makes sense.

In theory I can see this working, though I'm not sure Knot 10 strictly adheres to that. To work they would have to be good at getting the seller to list at a price that will encourage buyers not only to come in and look at the boats but make an offer. And the boats would have to be in a condition that is in line with the price. The only boat we saw that we seriously considered making an offer was the one they had.

Of course the other side of the coin is to accurately represent the boat in its present condition.

CPYB CODE OF ETHICS
Article 6
The Broker in his advertising should be especially careful to present a true picture and should neither advertise without disclosing his name, nor permit his salesman to use individual names or telephone numbers, unless the salesmanís connection with the Broker is obvious in the advertisement.

YBAA CODE OF ETHICS & BUSINESS PRACTICE
SECTION 1. RELATIONS WITH THE PUBLIC
1.6 The Broker in his/her advertising will be especially careful to present a true picture of the vessel and/or its condition and will not advertise without disclosing his/her name, nor permit his/her sales people to use the individual's name or telephone numbers, unless the sales person's connection with the Broker is obvious in the advertisement.

It's too bad that isn't strictly enforced. If it was, maybe they would sell more boats.

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I am thinking there must have been a misprint in the price, was it $7,950.00 or $795.00? I know they could not possibly be asking $79,500.00 real US Dollars for that thing. I figure the reason the broker was not wanting you to talk to the owner was the fact that you might tell him that he must be smoking something illegal if he thinks anyone will pay that much for the boat that he let go to pot, (small pun intended).
Well, after we were back at the dock, the broker did mention the seller was pretty firm on the price so any dramatically lower offers shouldn't be made. I'm not sure but this may have been one of the boats that hadn't seen any interest in a year or more.
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post #28 of 77 Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

Very misleading indeed. The photos in the listing were clearly taken some time ago since the broken bow rail, companionway woodwork needing upkeep, etc. don't show up. The listing also says "Priced reduced!". You mean they were asking MORE than $79k at one point!?

They call 'em "broke"ers for a reason. Follow their advice and you'll end up broker than when you started.
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post #29 of 77 Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

Julie you are correct that the buyer pays all. That is true when buying a boat and buying a house. Here is a little maneuver that will save you a few dollars. Lets say the boat is 50,000 and the commission is 10% which is 5K. The buyer ends up with 45K in his pocket.
Restructure the purchase this way, you offer to pay the commission and offer the buyer 45K. The commission is based on the selling price of 45K which is 4.5K. You've just saved yourself 500.00 dollars. Don't let the broker (boat or real estate) get a commission on the commission. When you use this and save yourself a few bucks, you can buy me and the admiral a cold one.
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post #30 of 77 Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Originally Posted by Captainmeme View Post
Julie you are correct that the buyer pays all. That is true when buying a boat and buying a house. Here is a little maneuver that will save you a few dollars. Lets say the boat is 50,000 and the commission is 10% which is 5K. The buyer ends up with 45K in his pocket.
Restructure the purchase this way, you offer to pay the commission and offer the buyer 45K. The commission is based on the selling price of 45K which is 4.5K. You've just saved yourself 500.00 dollars. Don't let the broker (boat or real estate) get a commission on the commission. When you use this and save yourself a few bucks, you can buy me and the admiral a cold one.
Yeah, sure. The broker is going to accept this maneuver. No problem.
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