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  #41  
Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainmeme View Post
Everything is negotiable. Some is better than none. And some employers do reduce
employees' salaries at review time. If the employee doesn't like it, he can walk. Its not cheating, the terms are known before the deal is agreed to.

That "lousy" $500 looks a lot better in my pocket than the brokers. And you know what else I've done in deals? I've (threaten) mentioned to the listing agent I could use a different agent to make the deal. He gets the idea that his commission would be cut in half if I do. So instead of his commission being reduced by that "lousy" $500 it would be
reduced by 2500. Hmmmm, my offer is looking pretty good to the broker now.
Interesting. Most brokers know each other. Not just locally. unspoken ehtical rule is not to "steal" clients the way you describe. It will come back to bite you in the arse.

I am not a broker, but if I was and you suggested the above scenario, I would tell you to feck off.
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  #42  
Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Originally Posted by kwaltersmi View Post
I don't necessarily agree. If the boat is representated accurately but also priced accordingly, you'll likely still get traffic, and probably more targeted traffic who are shopping in the proper price range and are already prepared for the condition of the boat.
The sales practice in use here is one to generate maximum traffic. The more ups the greater the odds of a sale. A clean boat is going to generate more traffic than a problem child. Of the potential buyers will be those with lessened expectations who will not care that the boat is inaccurately described. They could be folks stretching out of their price range who now see opportunity to buy a quality name. etc etc. Or, a top dollar buyer seeing the potential of a good deal. Even those looking for turnkey clean boat will likely give it the once over. They may not be happy, but they didn't walk away when they saw that the boat wasn't as advertised. And, a potential buyer who doesn't walk away is a sales opportunity.

For the record I disagree with this bait and switch sales method. Unfortunately, it is used for a reason. That is, it works!

Last edited by TJC45; 08-21-2013 at 01:04 PM.
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  #43  
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Originally Posted by Captainmeme View Post
Julie you are correct that the buyer pays all. That is true when buying a boat and buying a house. Here is a little maneuver that will save you a few dollars. Lets say the boat is 50,000 and the commission is 10% which is 5K. The buyer ends up with 45K in his pocket.
Restructure the purchase this way, you offer to pay the commission and offer the buyer 45K. The commission is based on the selling price of 45K which is 4.5K. You've just saved yourself 500.00 dollars. Don't let the broker (boat or real estate) get a commission on the commission. When you use this and save yourself a few bucks, you can buy me and the admiral a cold one.
As you say, you could save yourself a few bucks. I can't see any agent/broker agreeing to this. There is no contract between the buyer and the agent/broker. The broker has a listing contract with the seller that protects his ( the broker's) interest. The sales contract is between buyer and seller, not buyer and broker. There is nothing in it that would protect the broker's interest. the broker isn't a party to that contract. There is no binding obligation to pay the broker. After you decide that the broker doesn't need to be paid, the resulting lawsuits would go like this: Broker sues seller, seller sues you.

Your scenerio could work, but truthfully it requires a level of trust that I wouldn't give. After-all, you are trying to save yourself a relatively minor sum of money. Skin flints aren't the types i would trust with a promissary note.

Last edited by TJC45; 08-21-2013 at 01:48 PM.
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  #44  
Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJC45 View Post
The sales practice in use here is one to generate maximum traffic. The more ups the greater the odds of a sale. A clean boat is going to generate more traffic than a problem child. Of the potential buyers will be those with lessened expectations who will not care that the boat is inaccurately described. They could be folks stretching out of their price range who now see opportunity to buy a quality name. etc etc. Or, a top dollar buyer seeing the potential of a good deal. Even those looking for turnkey clean boat will likely give it the once over. They may not be happy, but they didn't walk away when they saw that the boat wasn't as advertised. And, a potential buyer who doesn't walk away is a sales opportunity.

For the record I disagree with this bait and switch sales method. Unfortunately, it is used for a reason. That is, it works!
I could see the bargain shopper only seeing the price and trying to get the boat for as little as possible by citing an endless list of problems. But you have to have a seller willing to accept the fact his or her asking price is unrealistic for that to work. So the broker would need to qualify the seller if this particular tactic is going to work. With this boat, the broker said the seller is pretty firm on price.
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Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Originally Posted by Captainmeme View Post
Everything is negotiable....
Somewhat, but not those items clearly covered in signed legal agreements. When a seller lists the boat with a broker, he/she signs a listing agreement which has a number of effects, including prevent YOU from negotiating these conditions with the seller.

This tread has a lot of hot air in it!
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  #46  
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

Contracts can be modified when all parties agree. Its that simple.
I've used this method to purchase several homes.
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  #47  
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

Yes, most things are negotiable.

A brokers commission is negotiable, but hardly for the price range we seem to be talking about in this thread. Show up at a brokerage to list your 70' Hylas and ask for reduced commission and you will likely get it. Show up with a $20K 30 footer and the broker will likely ask for a fixed minimum commission in USD that exceeds 10% of the asking price.

There is very little money in selling $20K boats.
Not much money is selling <$100K boats.
A broker should preferrrably sell mostly above $100K boats to make a decent living.

Above said, sometimes a broker will cut back on commission and give a kick back to the seller to make a deal happen.
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

Cap, i'm not doubting you. Just sayin' that it's a legal can of worms. If I were a broker I wouldn't agree to it. it is an arrangement where the only person coming out ahead is you. And, in fact the broker who put the deal together is getting less. While that works for you, there is no incentive for the buyer or broker to go along with it. And, if the answer is you get your way or you walk, then it's Cya!

I could see your plan working on a weak property where you as buyer have leverage. No so much on a strong property.

I'm trying to figure out why so many people are so intent on screwing salespeople out of hard earned commissions?

Last edited by TJC45; 08-21-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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  #49  
Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
....I know there's a lot of disagreement with this but I see the buyer as the one who pays for everything. The buyer hands the down payment to the broker and that will be the broker's commission if the sale goes through. The buyer pays for all the inspections. And the buyer pays the seller if everything is cool. Without the buyer, no one gets paid.

I realize the seller believes he or she is paying the broker but in reality the seller never sees the commission pass through their hands. So in the strictest sense, the buyer is the one everyone should be trying to please. "The customer is always right" sort of thing......
Don't let yourself fall in this hole. Unless spelled out differently, the brokers have a duty to the seller, not the buyer. Don't count on their need to get you to write a check to mean they work for you. Car salesman work for the dealer, not the buyer. Many brokers aspire to the integrity of a car salesman. You seem to need a new one, based on the wild goose chase they sent you on.
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  #50  
Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJC45 View Post
...The more people who come on board that boat, the better chance it has of selling. If it's deficiencies are told up front no one will come to look at the boat. Quite frankly, the listing agent/broker and the owner could care less if you are pissed off about the boat being misrepresented. The more people who look, the more offers they will get. And make no mistake, they will get offers. And, they increase their opportunites to sell the boat...
...The sales practice in use here is one to generate maximum traffic...Of the potential buyers will be those with lessened expectations who will not care that the boat is inaccurately described. They could be folks stretching out of their price range who now see opportunity to buy a quality name.
You can fool yourself into thinking this if you want. But you will have very little chance of selling a boat by:

- Lying about its condition in words and in pictures,
- Overpricing it way out of line with its condition, and
- Indicating that the seller is not flexible on price

All you will get is a bunch of pissed off people because they were lied to and their time was wasted. And you will deny yourself the foot traffic of people who would look if they knew that this boat actually was in their price range.

Overpricing a boat reduces foot traffic. It does not increase foot traffic. If you want to increase the number of visitors, price it fairly.

I don't deny that there are an awful lot of boats out there that are misrepresented through hyped language and out-of-date pictures, and that are overpriced. But they don't sell. They sit until the owner realizes that he can't sell it without coming down in price.

In fact, there are SO MANY boats out there that are misrepresented and overpriced that it's kind of silly to have yet another thread dedicated to this one boat. It's not like this is anything unusual. Welcome to boat shopping!

This is exactly the reason that I advised to OP a month or so ago not to try to bargain down the price of one boat based on a Yachtworld listing of another boat that she hasn't personally seen yet. If the broker is any good he will be familiar with that other Yachtworld boat and will call your bluff.
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