An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat - Page 6 - SailNet Community
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post #51 of 77 Old 08-21-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Don't let yourself fall in this hole. Unless spelled out differently, the brokers have a duty to the seller, not the buyer. Don't count on their need to get you to write a check to mean they work for you. Car salesman work for the dealer, not the buyer. Many brokers aspire to the integrity of a car salesman. You seem to need a new one, based on the wild goose chase they sent you on.
Thanks Minn, but just to be clear, we laid out all the boats we wanted to see (my SO in particular) and told the broker to line them up. The understanding was he would do the over-the-phone groundwork and set up the appointments. In return we would get broker "insider info" and he would work on our behalf to make sure whatever contract was drawn up wouldn't leave us screwed.

Yeah, we were kinda clueless.

Along the way we got an education I don't know we could have gotten any other way. Right or wrong, I feel confident I can walk into any boat buying negotiation with sufficient knowledge to do the right thing, for us.

This was never a singular focus for us, that being to find and buy a boat. We both knew we needed to see what's out there and whittle down the wide array of prospects to something more manageable. We accomplished that.

But the best part was getting together again with Dan & Jaye, meeting David and his wife and spending a day with them, rum runners on Kent Island, dinner on the dock at Moorings in Newport and seeing the massive sailing yachts there, and spending time with our friend in CT. For me, this was priceless. That we got to learn about the boat buying world was just a plus.
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post #52 of 77 Old 08-21-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

I WhyKnot the broker you used. LOL I mean Knot 10

I have lived in this area for many years and never heard of them till last year or so. I know many of the Major brokers.


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post #53 of 77 Old 08-22-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

Knot 10 had two of the boats we were interested in seeing, though we only saw one. They weren't "our" broker.

From what the broker on Kent Island said, yes, they are new. But he said they are having their best year so far. The impression I got was he was more business-like than the other brokers. Where most of the other brokers acted more like the caretaker of the boat - giving us access and letting us look it over - the Knot 10 broker approached this in a more business-like manner. Sorry for my poor explanation, I can't take the feeling and put it into words at the moment.

Anyway, we both walked away thinking these guys could change the brokerage industry. At a time when everyone is counting their pennies, they are asking 3% less and selling their inventory faster and therefore putting more money in the hands of the seller faster. Time will tell.
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Contracts can be modified when all parties agree. Its that simple.
I've used this method to purchase several homes.
There's no way a broker would re-negotiate, with the buyer, the terms of his listing contract with the seller, for the sole purpose of saving the buyer some money. That's a pipe dream.

Certainly the broker may reduce his commission with the SELLER if the broker considers it essential to closing a deal, where the broker decides getting 7% of a sale is better than 10% of nothing. The difference is what the seller nets, not what the buyer pays.
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post #55 of 77 Old 08-22-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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I don't deny that there are an awful lot of boats out there that are misrepresented through hyped language and out-of-date pictures, and that are overpriced. But they don't sell. They sit until the owner realizes that he can't sell it without coming down in price.

In fact, there are SO MANY boats out there that are misrepresented and overpriced that it's kind of silly to have yet another thread dedicated to this one boat. It's not like this is anything unusual. Welcome to boat shopping!
And why is it that this practice of over pricing and misrepresnting is so common?


As for over pricing, if you don't ask, you don't get. Being told the seller is firm on price? HAHA good luck with that! Any buyer who falls for that one desserves the fleecing it will surely bring! Seriously, what do you expect the broker to say?

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post #56 of 77 Old 08-22-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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And why is it that this practice over over pricing and misrepresnting is so common?
Because boat owners are amateurs when it comes to selling their boats. They delude themselves into thinking they'll get all their money out of the boat, including full value for that Loran system they installed when they first got the boat. And brokers know they won't get the listing if they don't at least try to get the price the seller wants. So the broker initially lists it at the inflated price, hoping that after a few months or years on the market, the seller will "get it" and lower his price.

As for misrepresenting, many of the misleading pictures were taken "only a few months ago" when the boat is first listed. After a year or more on the market, the boat deteriorates and the broker won't bother to change them.
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

I know of at least one boat that is probably going to end up being lost to the marina because the brokers have not been honest enough with the seller to let him know that he should accept any offer of any amount or he will never sell it. If you look at the ad here you can see why, it is a huge ferrocement ketch with a ton of mechanical problems and basically needs to be scrapped out for parts unless someone wants to spend a boatload (ha pun intended ) of money on it, and even then you would still have a ferrocement boat that is older than Moses.

1976 Samson 54 Sailing Ketch Boat for Sale (09760) in Vancouver, BC - Specs and Photos - POP Yachts

I feel really bad for the guy, but I doubt the $20,000.00 he is asking is going to be something that can be gotten for the boat that is in this much distress. His original asking price was $66,700.00 on THIS site, and I think it was $80k on another one I saw, poor guy just wants to get off the boat that he cannot maintain anymore and it has gone down so badly that it is worth probably less than nothing now.
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

As for unethical salespeople, how about unethical customers?

We are nation of voracious consumers who hate to be sold anything and view salesman in derisive terms.

if a car salesman told you that "buyers are liars" you would be offended. Yet, the most common objection uttered by customers in dealership showrooms is "I want to think about it." This contrasts with industry surveys that show that more than 8 out of 10 potential customers who walk out of a showroom without buying, buy some place else. So, what the customer is really saying when they say "I want to think about it" is "I want to shop your price." Buyers are liars. it's an ugly statement, but one borne out of fact, not contempt.

Things are the way they are for a reason. The car dealer knows that if you walk out without buying there is an 80% chance you won't be back. High enough odds against, to risk offending you by pushing you. Everything they do is by design based on long history of dealing with the public. The customer views this over aggressiveness as unethical behavior. We don't like being pushed. Again, survey says most car sales don't happen before the third closing attempt. Pushing is how most sales get done. The saleman, in doing so, is using this knowledge to simply do his job. And, we as customers, have programed him into this process. How crazy is that?

When it come to boat sales, again things are the way they are for a reason. Time honed techniques for selling boats. if too many boats are over priced and misrepresented, it a practice in place for a reason. that reason being, it's the most effective way to get it done
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Don't let yourself fall in this hole. Unless spelled out differently, the brokers have a duty to the seller, not the buyer.
Well, sure, legally the broker owes contractual duties to the seller, but in reality we all know that brokers really only care about getting the deal done and grabbing that commission.

Usually, a seller's broker and the seller both want the same thing-- sell the boat. Though, a seller's broker may want the seller to compromise on price, because, as the saying goes, a dollar today....

A real concern arises if as a buyer you are using a buyer-broker. Do these exist in the boat selling industry? I've used them in some real estate transactions, and not in others. They can be helpful in doing legwork, but when it comes down to a specific transaction, they're really not going to look out for your interests. They just want the deal done.

Bottom line: At the end of the day, you as buyer, and only you, are looking out for you.
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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As for unethical salespeople, how about unethical customers?

if a car salesman told you that "buyers are liars" you would be offended. Yet, the most common objection uttered by cuastomers in dealership showrooms is "I want to think about it." This contrasts with industry surveys that show that more than 8 out of 10 potential customers who walk out of a showroom without buying, buy some place else. So, what the customer is really saying when they say "I want to think about it" is "I want to shop your price." Buyers are liars. it's an ugly statement, but one borne out of fact, not contempt. ...
You seem to be saying that it's OK for a broker to lie about the condition of of a boat, but a car shopper is an "unethical liar" because he walks out of a dealership saying "I want to think about it" when he actually wants to commit the immoral sin of looking for a better price.

Dude, what planet do you live on?


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