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  #71  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Originally Posted by TJC45 View Post
The job of the salesman is to drive traffic to his product. if his product is the run of the mill, he still has to drive traffic to it.
Can we agree to qualify that by adding "to drive traffic in an honest and ethical manner"?
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  #72  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I don't know why this is such a big deal to you, and why you are so anxious to characterize it as an "unethical lie." When buying a car (or most anything else) there are many factors to consider besides price. If the customer isn't ready to buy that car at that price, maybe he REALLY DOES WANT TO THINK ABOUT IT. Shocking! Maybe he has a deal for $200 less somewhere else on the same car but it's a less preferred color, and he wants to THINK ABOUT whether to spend the extra $200 for this color that he likes better. (Often the salesman forces the issue by offering the "special price" only on the car that he has in stock.)

Every time a potential buyer walks out of a dealership, he thinks about what he saw. Too often, he's thinking about that a$$hole salesman that tried every trick in the book to keep him from walking out. But he is always "thinking about it." So he's not lying like you claim he is.

I actually did have one salesman insist on getting my charge card from me before he would go to the "back room" to discuss my offer with his sales manager. I walked out immediately and never went back. And I've never stopped THINKING ABOUT IT in the 20 years since that happened. As a result, every car I have purchased since has been done over the phone, talking directly to the sales manager. I've had it with the crap that the floor salesmen pull. Usually they're trying to force me to buy a car that's different from what I want. I don't even care about price if they don't have the right car.

Your comments convey a real hostility and distrust toward customers. If you happen to be a car salesman, be forewarned that I will sense this and walk out every time. I won't deal with hostile salesmen. If you think I'm a hostile customer, that's fine. I've never had a problem finding someone else to sell me a car at a fair price.
Funny with your attitude you are acting like a hostile buyer.

As a salesman I wouldn't give a buyer with an attitude like yours the time of day. Who needs the aggravation. You seem predisposed to dislike sales people, that you have a superior attitude.
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  #73  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Funny with your attitude you are acting like a hostile buyer.

As a salesman I wouldn't give a buyer with an attitude like yours the time of day. Who needs the aggravation. You seem predisposed to dislike sales people, that you have a superior attitude.
I've never had problems with sales people unless they tried to "play games," like the one I mentioned who tried to get me to hand over my charge card before he would quote me a price on the car.

The last 4 cars that I purchased went very smoothly. The sales people were glad they gave me the time of day. Even prior to that, I ultimately found salespeople who were straightforward and didn't play games, but only after walking away from a few who were unethical.
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Old 08-22-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
Pop Yachts is weird, and I think they may be like Knot 10 (but I am not really familiure with knot 10) they are not a traditional brokerage. They find boats that are being listed by owner, and say they are asking 25,000 they will contact them and say they can get them 29,000 for the boat, but they take a 4,000 commission. Even if it sells for 6,000 they get that commission, as in fixed not percentage. The other thing is that you are free to sell it on your own and owe them nothing. I looked at a boat that I had seen both the Pop yachts and the craigslist ad. I contacted pop yachts but they would not return emails so I contacted the seller directly. They showed me the boat. I was only moderately interested as it was not in great shape, well inside it was but outside it was a crazed mess. I have never seen crazing like that every inch of the deck and topsides were crazed. But anyway there was some discussion as to if Pop Yachts would get a commission since I had registered with there site and asked about the boat. Then they started bombarding me with emails with boats all over the country. Nothing local to me, but a nice deal in California, another in Florida. And we are talking about mid 20,000 boats so it would cost me more than the boat was worth to get it to me.

They had one listing I was willing to make a full price offer on contingent on inspection (it was 12,000 so I was not going to even require a survey before purchase) but they delayed there responses to me and it sold. So I cannot say good things about PopYachts. To me it seems they mostly troll craigslist promising the world hoping to snag a sale without spending much time or money on it. They have hundreds of listings, if not thousands. My guess is that they make more off of the franchise fees to the brokers than off actually selling boats.
I have a friend who used to work for POP, he told me the money was not good enough so he left and went to work for someone else. He was doing more money doing surveys on the side for other people.

The boat in the ad is actually listed on almost every site you can find for $20K except for the owner's own personal site, where it is $19K. I have no idea what it is worth, but it is not going to bring anywhere near that much, the survey that the owner had done on it is not a pretty picture. I hope he can at least get something for it, and not just lose it to the marina.
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  #75  
Old 08-23-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I never said the salesman was lying about the special deal on in-stock inventory. I know how all that works, so I don't need a lecture on it. None of it is going to make me willing to buy a Camry Sedan when I came in looking for a Camry Wagon. (Which is what happened at one dealer 24 years ago. He did everything short of chaining the doors to try to get me to buy a car I had no interest in buying.)

I just cannot believe that when a customer decides to close off his discussions by politely saying, "I'll think about it," you would characterize this as lying. It's absurd to suggest that a polite statement like that is unethical. Do you really expect everyone to tell the exact truth and say something like, "I don't want to buy here because you're a slimy @$$hole"? That's what I truthfully end up "thinking about" at 75% of the car dealers that I visit. No thanks, I'll just walk out and say, "I'll think about it." I guess that makes me a pathological liar.
Your words- Often the salesman forces the issue by offering the "special price" only on the car he has in stock"

Sounds to me awfull lot like you don't believe him.

I agree with Chef, your distain of sales people comes through loud and clear. No doub this is projected the moment you walk through the showroom door.

As for telling lies, it is what it is. Nothing wrong with telling the dealer I'm going to shop your price or that i'm not comfortable buying here. I buy a lot of vehicles. i've done that countless times. When the truth is I'm not going to think about it, Im just going to leave, that's what i tell them. No need to turn it advesarial. And, definately no need to lie.

On the other side of the coin do I lie to a seller in a transaction? Sure! If it will get me a better deal. NO lecture because you know it all, but of course as you know, you can get a better price on the car if you tell the dealer you are going to finance. I don't come and lie and say hey i'm financing, but if they ask the question i tell them yes. When the price is negotiated and I'm in the finance office I then tell them I've decided to pay cash. Buyers are liars!!!! Is it unethical? In the sense of how to win at poker it could be considered shrewd. But you are free to judge for yourself.

Lastly, I'm confused. In your response to me in post 73 you say you haven't dealt with a car salesman in 20 years. You always buy over the phone dealing only with management. Yet, in your reply to chef you tell us that the salespeople you dealt with on the last 4 cars were very happy to give you their time. How is that possible if you don't deal with sales people and don't come to showrooms?

Last edited by TJC45; 08-23-2013 at 10:10 AM.
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  #76  
Old 08-23-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

In all four cases I negotiated pricing terms with the sales manager first, then he would hand me off to a salesman to finish the paperwork. They were thrilled with the arrangement, because it was a guaranteed sale for them, and an easy commission.

Funny how by going straight to the sales manager (usually by phone) and eliminating all the opportunity for gamesmanship, the process was streamlined and everyone ended up happier!

The process that I followed is what Consumer Reports was recommending at the time. I'm not sure what they recommend these days, since the Internet has probably change things a lot.
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Old 08-23-2013
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Re: An Excellent Condition, Turnkey Boat

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
In all four cases I negotiated pricing terms with the sales manager first, then he would hand me off to a salesman to finish the paperwork. They were thrilled with the arrangement, because it was a guaranteed sale for them, and an easy commission.

Funny how by going straight to the sales manager (usually by phone) and eliminating all the opportunity for gamesmanship, the process was streamlined and everyone ended up happier!

The process that I followed is what Consumer Reports was recommending at the time. I'm not sure what they recommend these days, since the Internet has probably change things a lot.
Of course they were thrilled. getting paid without having to work. But you didn't buy the car from them. You bought it from the manager.

Not what chef or I are referring to.

You don't like salesman, you don't respect salesman. You refer to some of what salesmen have to do as "Tricks" or being hostile, or not playing it straight. Not that there aren't salesman who do some stupid things, like trying to get your credit card, or not giving you the keys to your car back after they've taken them to have your car evaluated for trade. But these people are the exception, not the rule. No salesman is going to sell anything to someone they piss off. In your case you walk in pissed off. You don't like them and they know it!

BTW, As a side activity I help people buy cars. This is for family, friends and clients. I don't charge them anything but ask them to let me either do the deal for them from the get go, or at least let me review it before they pull the trigger. I know where all the money is hidden! Everybody is happy! The dealer moves a unit, the salesman gets paid, my friends/clients/relatives don't get hosed, its a win win! And safe to say this is something i know more than a little about.
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