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  #21  
Old 08-30-2013
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Re: Cat 25

I did find one 27 on a trailer. But with no swing keel it it sat very high up and you would have to back way down into the water.

The sad thing is the mooring I found was cheaper then the winter storage. This is my problem. I want the space of a 27 or even a 30 but I don't want to spend every dime I have.
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  #22  
Old 08-30-2013
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Re: Cat 25

You could always have it launched for you via travelift. Yes, it increases your costs (roughly $250-300 for the haul-out, maybe the same for the launch, maybe less because it won't get power washed). Just putting it out there, though.

We'd all like to pay less than we do, trust me! I'd suggest looking at it from a different perspective - the money you save by putting it on a mooring will help pay for the winter storage, and also helps you afford the 27 over the 25. What's your real difference in price between the two?
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  #23  
Old 08-30-2013
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Re: Cat 25

You mean the price between the boats? That's about the same for a nice 25 with trailer or a nice 27 with out trailer.

Now the winter storage was $24 a foot plus I would have to rent buy a cradle. The mooring was depending on the place $430 a year or $300 a year plus an upfront cost of $1000 for the mooring tackle that would then be mine. Not that any of this would break the bank but I'm as my wife puts it very cheap.

Last edited by LakeMi; 08-30-2013 at 10:36 PM.
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  #24  
Old 08-30-2013
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Re: Cat 25

I meant the difference in winter storage costs for you. Assume the C25 has a trailer. Do you have a tow vehicle that can pull 6000+ lbs for whatever the distance is you're going? If you hang out at the C25 site, most of the experienced trailer sailors will tell you that the C25 pushes the limit of most vehicles. We bought a V8 Dodge Durango with the expectation of being able to tow our C25. The guys on the C25 site suggested that the boat is something like 4500 lbs dry. Add in another 1000-1200 lbs for the trailer, plus the weight of the engine, food, fuel, water, etc., and you're easily looking at 6000 lbs. They suggested that you don't want your combined weight to be more than about 90% of your vehicle's capacity. For our Durango, that was 7000 lbs. Subtract out 10%, and we're at 6300 lbs. If we have a few hundred extra pounds of gear, we could find ourselves exceeding the rated limit. What most of the guys recommended were either dual axle pick-up trucks, or paying a tow truck to tow the boat on the trailer (if you have a trailer). If you have a capable tow vehicle, or are willing to take the chances, what are the fees to launch/retrieve the boat at the ramp? How much is gas? Any other expenses? If you have to rent/hire to get it towed, what will that cost?

Now compare that to the cost of keeping it at a yard ($600-$650) for the winter. Does the storage fee include hauling and launching, too? Power wash? It probably does (it does around here). You mentioned a cradle; doesn't the marina have stands? Most of the marinas around here have them and the winter storage fee includes the blocking of the boat by the marina with the marina's stands. Many of the marinas here said that they won't even let you provide your own stands because of insurance issues.

You don't have to give me actual numbers (or any numbers); that's really none of my business. I was just trying to give you a framework from which this could be analyzed. In the end, it's your money, your boat, your priorities, etc. But, sometimes, when you actually sit an run the numbers, the costs aren't as different as you thought they would be. In our case, we looked at having our C25 towed to us (we didn't have a trailer). It was going to cost almost $1000 to have it towed to us, blocked, and then towed back in the spring. Winter storage around here was $650 or $700. It wound up being a no-brainer.
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  #25  
Old 08-31-2013
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Re: Cat 25

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Originally Posted by MarkCK View Post
As a general rule you can never go wrong with a Catalina. They build a nice boat at a good price.
Not for early Catalinas. Catalinas from the 1970's and 1980's were definitely of average or below average quality compared to many of their competitors of that era. They were better built than Coronados (Frank Butler's previous boat company), but that ain't saying much. Ericson, Cal/Jensen, Islander, Pearson, et cetera all had better build quality, IMHO. Newer Catalinas are of better quality, but all manufacturers seem to be building better boats since about 1990, or so. It's a bit like cars; a Dodge of today may be better built than a Honda or Toyota from 1970, but it's still not that great compared to its CONTEMPORARY competition.
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  #26  
Old 08-31-2013
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Re: Cat 25

My first boat was a 1984 Catalina 25. I bought it almost immediately after taking sailing lessons.

It was a nice boat to get into sailing with. It sails quite well and the tall rig was good in the light air that we have in Seattle. The boat is pretty forgiving of mistakes which makes it suitable for learning on. It's cruiseable and raceable, more so than many other 25' boats which are trying to only do one or the other. It's not great at anything, but it is good at almost everything.

I like the simplicity of the systems on the boat. An outboard engine, basic head, manual pump water, simple electronics, and transom hung rudder are all robust designs that are easy and less expensive to maintain.

The 1983 and later ones have some design features that make them a better choice than earlier models. The fuel locker is a safer design, heavy hardware was properly balanced to keep the boat level, and minor upgrades were made throughout the boat.

As with any boat purchase the most important thing is getting a good one. Even on an inexpensive boat you'll either want to learn how to survey the important stuff yourself (most importantly checking to make sure that the hull and decks are solid) or pay for a survey to be done. A Catalina 25 for $2000 that needs new sails, motor, cushions, rigging, and deck repairs is no bargain compared to one for closer to $10,000 that has been well loved and where all of that stuff has been replaced in the last couple of years.
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  #27  
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Re: Cat 25

On long trips: I did a two week trip in my Catalina 25. I found that to be a bit too long, but I think that an annual week long trip would be fine for a couple. You'll want to be careful with how you pack, there isn't a ton of storage room. The best storage on the boat is keeping stuff in the quarterberth (which is huge) while sleeping in the v-berth.

You do get standing room (around 6'6") in the main cabin with the pop-top up. You'll want to make sure that you get a boat that includes the pop-top cover, they are expensive and hard to source apart from the boat. You don't get it over the galley area, which is a bit annoying.

It is a big step above camping.

The 25 is a much better boat to own on a budget than the 30, and likely than a 27. Any Catalina 30 that is in the same price range as a 25 is going to have a nearly 40 year old inboard engine. Replacing the inboard (which will be almost inevitable) will cost you $10-$15k. 27s came in either configuration (inboard and outboard), but if you get one with an outboard you want the model designed for it, not the inboard model with an outboard added on. The transom is different on the two boats, and the outboard model has a semi-well for the outboard that brings it closer to the centerline by over a foot.

Sail size is related to displacement, and the 27 (50% heavier) and 30 (over 100% heavier) will take much more expensive sails. To put this into dollar context a sail for a 30' boat costs about twice as much ($1000 vs $2000 ballpark) as one for a 25' boat. Good sails make a huge difference in boat performance and comfort (old sails overpower the boat and cause it to heel more).
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  #28  
Old 08-31-2013
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Re: Cat 25

You really owe it to yourself to go and see these boats in person to get a feeling of how you will fit into the cabin space.
Keep in mind that there are quite a few "flavors" of Catalina 25'.
There are 6 different entries for the C25 on sailboatdata.com plus 3 types of C 250 (which is the newer water ballasted version). The "flavors" include: full keel, center board, shoal keel, tall mast etc.
There is also the Capri version of 25' sailboat.
The differences between all of these are quite significant.
Some C25's may even have an inboard diesel engine...

Happy hunting.
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  #29  
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Re: Cat 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W View Post
On long trips: I did a two week trip in my Catalina 25. I found that to be a bit too long, but I think that an annual week long trip would be fine for a couple. You'll want to be careful with how you pack, there isn't a ton of storage room. The best storage on the boat is keeping stuff in the quarterberth (which is huge) while sleeping in the v-berth.

You do get standing room (around 6'6") in the main cabin with the pop-top up. You'll want to make sure that you get a boat that includes the pop-top cover, they are expensive and hard to source apart from the boat. You don't get it over the galley area, which is a bit annoying.

It is a big step above camping.

The 25 is a much better boat to own on a budget than the 30, and likely than a 27. Any Catalina 30 that is in the same price range as a 25 is going to have a nearly 40 year old inboard engine. Replacing the inboard (which will be almost inevitable) will cost you $10-$15k. 27s came in either configuration (inboard and outboard), but if you get one with an outboard you want the model designed for it, not the inboard model with an outboard added on. The transom is different on the two boats, and the outboard model has a semi-well for the outboard that brings it closer to the centerline by over a foot.

Sail size is related to displacement, and the 27 (50% heavier) and 30 (over 100% heavier) will take much more expensive sails. To put this into dollar context a sail for a 30' boat costs about twice as much ($1000 vs $2000 ballpark) as one for a 25' boat. Good sails make a huge difference in boat performance and comfort (old sails overpower the boat and cause it to heel more).
Now you bring up another question. Why do old sails over power the boat? My wife does not like it to heel to much
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  #30  
Old 08-31-2013
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Re: Cat 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeMi View Post
Now you bring up another question. Why do old sails over power the boat? My wife does not like it to heel to much
You can't flatten them very effectively. It is like sailing with the outhaul, halyard, and cunningham eased all of the time.
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