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A philosophical divide?

6K views 55 replies 35 participants last post by  bristol299bob 
#1 ·
I think there are two types of sailors: Those who reward maintenance with a sail and/or a destination, and those who perform maintenance so they can sail and/or to a destination.

How many of you enjoy the process as much as the result, and how many of you endure the process the get the result?

Please discuss.
 
#3 · (Edited)
How many of you enjoy the process as much as the result, and how many of you endure the process the get the result?
For me thats a ridiculous question. Like saying who has an auto and likes working on it? If my car is a junker I junk the f'ing thing and get a car that works.

The reason I have a boat is to travel and see places I could not otherwise afford. Its JUST a conveyance to get me from point A to point B and on-site cheap accomodation.

To my mind it is insane, absolutely nutters, to spend retirement years relishing a blocked sh!tter, or varnishing some bit of crap so you can do it again next year.

I maintain my boat because its the only way I can see the world.

:)

Mark.
 
#7 ·
For me thats a ridiculous question. Like saying who has an auto and likes working on it? If my car is a junker I junk the f'ing thing and get a car that works.

The reason I have a boat is to travel and see places I could otherwise afford it. Its JUST a conveyance to get me from point A to point B and on-site cheap accomodation.

To my mind it is insane, absolutely nutters, to spend retirement years relishing a blocked sh!tter, or varnishing some bit of crap so you can do it again next year.

I maintain my boat because its the only way I can see the world.

:)

Mark.
^^^^This.

I don't enjoy maintenance - but I'll do it to maintain my enjoyment of sailing.

(See what I did there?)
 
#6 ·
Even if you're sailing a brand new boat you're doing work on it . And some people love it so much or because of economic necessity , they are willing to " relish a blocked ******* " Bright work is an annual chore . I defy anyone to say it isn't . To me it's all a part & parcel of the same process .
 
#8 ·
Bright work isn't an annual chore on my boat! A former professional painter, my teak is natural. No time for that. I do clean it occasionally.

Not sure I enjoy all the work on the boat but I enjoy knowing it is done and done correctly. I need to know how stuff I rely on works.

Down
 
#10 ·
I keep my boaat in a constant state of readiness both for practical purposes and personal ppride. I sail multiple times monthly and read sailing daily, either through bowditch, sea explorers manual (thanks boy scouuts) or more recently patrick o'brian haha. I crew bi weekly and after xmas will be cruising for months until i find a job crewing as a deckhand or mate of some kind. Then ill do it everyday all aeound the world until I get my go anywhere boat or reach skipper status on anothers.
life, love, sail.
 
#11 ·
I can't say I enjoy maintenance but most of it is not overly arduous. That said, let it get away from you and it goes from being a necessary chore and ends up painful and probably expensive. I guess we do all the day to day stuff ourselves but pay someone else if we think the task is best suited to a professional.
 
#12 ·
I'm still in new old boat phase, so it's very much getting the boat caught up on maintenance the PO didn't do, plus changing, adding things etc so that the boat is how I want her. Once I get there, then maintenance is just a necessary evil. Do I enjoy it? Sometimes. Is it better than working on the honey-do list? Absolutely.
 
#13 ·
I think most of us who live aboard and cruise feel that maintenance is a chore. We may get some satisfaction from doing a job and not paying someone else to do it, but we would all probably rather be snorkeling, fishing, touring an island or sailing, etc. We do it because we must and if there were actually competent people out there that we could trust to do these jobs properly and afford, most of us would do so in a heart beat.
Unfortunately, I found out many years ago that the yard mechanic, rigger, electrician, etc. will not be with me in a gale at sea to repair their screw ups and it became necessary to do the jobs myself, because then I'd know it was done right.
At this time I am learning refrigeration maintenance because the last professional I had aboard overcharged my fridge to the point it blew the start capacitor and relay. I paid the as*hole $350.00 to throw away 2 weeks food and wait a week and a half for parts to be sent down to the VI, with no refrigeration. This is not an uncommon story in the sailing community.
Would I rather pay $350.00 every 2 years to have my a/c's and refer system maintained? Absolutely. I don't really want to add gauges and 2 different gas types to my ample tool kit and spares locker and I have enough to do without taking on a this, too.
My varnish will probably not get done before the boat goes up for sale. We've tried wax and now we are trying NuFinish, but when you sail 3000 to 5000 miles a year, the sea is pretty hard on polished topsides, so we ARE looking for that short cut.
Back to your question. I don't believe I fit either category; I do maintenance because I have to, because I can't find someone else I can trust or can afford to help me out. It ain't fun and it isn't a challenge; I want a cold drink, fresh clean water and on a really hot evening, I want to cool the boat down while we eat dinner. Never mind functioning toilets, running lights, sheaves that turn in their blocks and a multitude of other things that keep a cruising boat operating comfortably and safely and me busier than I want to be maintaining the boat.
 
#15 ·
Chores of course are not necessarily a grind. There is no universal law that says work has to be a burden. Yes it often is, but it doesn't always have to be so. So some tasks on board I quite enjoy.
 
#16 ·
I have to enjoy the process to make it work for me. Yep, it gets to be a real drag, fixing stuff in paradise. But then that's how I got here. So no choice, part of the program. This year lot's of elbow grease, next year not so much. Beats the heck out of going to an office.
 
#19 ·
I enjoy the initial fixing up and renovation of old boats but after that stage, don't spend a lot of time making things shiny to impress other people. Once a boat is in good sailing shape, would rather be on the water than sitting dockside fussing with brightwork. I really appreciate seeing boats in "Bristol" condition but have never had the desire or patience to maintain a boat that meticulously. Different strokes...
 
#21 ·
Hey Jones;
One can always count on you to ask a thoughtful question, and then shut the hell up and listen to the answers. Thanks - this is a good read.

I think I fall somewhere in the middle on this one. You've seen my boat(s)...far from perfect, but continuously 'under the knife' working towards improvements.

I think it would benefit from some clarification on 'working on your boat'. In my mind, there are 3 types.
1. Necessary maintenance (fixing something broken)
2. Preventive maintenance (scheduling a regular task like oil changes, filters, etc., or identifying something that is ABOUT to become a problem)
3. Improvement items (tweaking block locations, adding 'low-buck projects' - a shameless plug for you! - etc...)

I enjoy #2 and #3 - because they get done on my time, at my schedule, the way I want. They never interfere with my sailing, or with my life. They add to my enjoyment of the boat, because now I know how something else works, fits, or whatever, and presumably, I can feel proud that the boat is now a little bit more functional. (otherwise, why would I have done it?!?)

#1 never happens when you want it to, and usually at a time when you want to be doing something else. Therefore, I resent this maintenance, and detest handing over money to fix whatever failed...

Not sure it that clarifies or muddies, but I had fun thinking about and answering this question.

Andy
 
#27 · (Edited)
Actually, I think you nailed it too ael. I always hate the inevitable #1. I'm in the middle of one of those now. Sure it's satisfying when you get it fixed - but never satisfying enough to be "enjoyable".

Like you, I'd much rather focus on #2 and #3 when I'm not sailing. That's a bit more enjoyable.
 
#22 ·
There is no such thing as a ridiculous question. Answers sometimes are ;-)

However, I'm in Mark's camp. Maintenance is a requirement to get me somewhere. Not a passion. But a discipline... they call it work, not play :)

I met a guy in Indiantown boat yard, who had been working on his boat for over 8 years. I got the feeling he was never really interested in going out. He just loved working on the boat. I found it depressing. He found it gave him purpose.

my 2c
 
#23 ·
Some maintenance tasks are very rewarding. The thing you need to fix is accessible, you have the part, it takes minutes not hours, and you are on your way. When this happens, I feel great, and I admit to even enjoying performing an occasional quick fix for friends on their boats.

Some maintenance tasks are awful. You cannot access the system that broke because when they built your boat they put the system in before they put the deck on, and no one thought about it. You don't have the part. You are out of the country and customs is delaying shipments. You get the part, and they sent the wrong one. Weeks later you are on your way.

I like the feeling of being independent and self sufficient. I like to understand how everything on the boat works and know how to fix it myself. I like not having my trip held up waiting on a repair or boat yard. I like a simple enough boat that I can fix almost anything myself in a pinch. I carry spares for things I've learned like to break. I like it when everything works. I believe in sailing in the smallest, simplest boat you can stand to live on so this is all possible.

Good thread, so I guess my answer is sometimes I enjoy maintenance, and sometimes I don't:)
 
#25 · (Edited)
Great post Jon. I couldn't agree more. I will say, though, that I don't like all boat chores (especially engine stuff), but I get a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction in seeing my boat in perfect condition. I especially enjoy the "improvement" projects. I also don't want to be a slave to my boat and, for this reason, I've kept the boat as simple as possible and with few "systems" to reduce maintenance. I'm getting to the point where I've got almost everything crossed off my "to-do" list and now I can enjoy some small projects like building a new spice rack for the galley. Nothing drives me more crazy than having something not working right aboard ...
 
#40 ·
I get a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction in seeing my boat in perfect condition.

I also don't want to be a slave to my boat
That's a contradiction in terms as far as I'm concerned. At least you didn't use the two statements in the same sentence.:p
 
#28 ·
I think we can also make a choice, to enjoy, or not, the necessary maintenance.
Changing the oil or coolant in your engine is not really a "fun thing to do", however it is preferable to have a well running engine when you need it most, so you can either hate every second of the job or not. Your choice.
I choose to enjoy those jobs as much as possible because why waste my time hating what I am doing? And the end result of all of the "necessary maintenance" tasks is that you can take pride in a boat that works well and looks good. For me that increases my enjoyment of sailing the boat. So while I don't love the tedious jobs I enjoy the results very much! And therefore I am quite happy to do the work.
Although stinky head jobs are much harder to enjoy......I don't think my attitude will evolve that much! :)
 
#29 · (Edited)
I think we can also make a choice, to enjoy, or not, the necessary maintenance.

Although stinky head jobs are much harder to enjoy......I don't think my attitude will evolve that much! :)
I tackled a big maintenance job to reduce that potential. It took some doing but I replaced the head on my I-28 with a Lavac! Problem solved! Have never had a problem since. It was quite a chore fitting it into the space but the result pays off every day. I guess that is maintenance. I prefer to consider it planning ahead..

Down
 
#30 ·
Through the years I've learned as most have that the more time spent maintaining all systems only adds to peace of mind when they are needed.
I am wrapping up a month offshore cruising the channel islands and despite all of the prep work done I've had to repair both heads, re-wire the starter on the Perkins, replace a circuit breaker and associated wiring from the inverter/charger and re-string the traveler.

Most of these repairs were probably brought on because of neglect and lack of use, the last two years were spent replacing worn out body parts (mine), which meant only a few day sails here and there.

Use it or lose it comes to mind.......
 
#31 ·
We used to say about old VW's that there were maintenance fanatics and then there were guys who could fix anything anywhere (and they often had to). I think there is sort of a parallel there. When it cam to VW's I don't think either group could totally understand they other. What you call a "philosophical divide", I am increasingly coming to view as a deeper personality test. More and more, I think one's philosophical standpoint on many of the great (and trivial) divisions of the day has less to do with reasoned assessment of the facts / sides / circumstance that make up the substance of the debate than it is of something deeper and more predetermined in all of us (maybe more related to traits such as your creativity or discipline; whether you are optimistic or skeptical; social or a loner etc). I doubt Socrates himself could change the minds of many of us when it comes to these philosophical divides. He sure couldn't convince me to worry about brightwork. Why is that?
 
#32 ·
Seems it applies to more than just sailors (the question, that is). Why do we work? Some work isn't work.
Choose a job you love and you will never have to work a day in your life.
Confucius

We maintain our boats (or not); we maintain our bodies; we maintain our lives. Some of these acts of maintenance we don't consider work... showering, teeth brushing, eating. Some even love the work they do, and they are the happy ones.
Nothing is really work unless you would rather be doing something else.
James Matthew Barrie, Sr.


Aren't the two choices you mention the same? Do the maintenance, then use the sailboat. This summer I have varnished teak, painted both anchors, installed new bilge pump hose, varnished teak, installed elongated bowl on the old PHII head and rebuilt the pump parts, changed oil and filter, installed new battery charger, varnished teak, and so on. I did a little cruising too. I'm not sure which category I would belong to. None of it seemed like work.
I never did a day's work in my life. It was all fun.
Thomas A. Edison
 
#34 ·
Other than washing and cleaning, during the sailing season, the maintenance on our boat all occurs when she is not in the water and is next to our house during the winter months. Our maintenance does not and will not impact our sailing time and I take that pretty seriously. My wife has a zero tolerance policy for breakdowns when cruising, especially considering what I do......;)

We go in the water in mid April and come out in mid to late November so we get plenty of sailing in for Maine. We've just surpassed 970nm this season and will be sailing until November or three more months...... Not bad for just coastal Maine sailing, but I do sneak off a bit during the week for some solo sailing...;)

For me maintenance is for the off season. For some of my customers the deferred maintenance or lack of maintenance ruins their sailing season, weekend or vacation.

A customer in July spent a full day getting towed and two days in a boat yard waiting to get an his boat fixed. This was an item I had suggested he do two years prior.... His thought process was; "I'll wait till it dies."... Needless to say his family was NOT happy that their precious one week of of prime family time had been destroyed by deferred maintenance...

The biggest in-water projects I have had to tackle this year on our boat was a warranty issue on a solar panel and some tweaks to the alternator voltage regulator. We have plenty of time on the hard to keep the boat in tip-top condition so as not to impact sailing time.... For me it's not an either/or situation its that we can do both and neither one impacts the other....
 
#35 ·
Other than washing and cleaning, during the sailing season, the maintenance on our boat all occurs when she is not in the water and is next to our house during the winter months. Our maintenance does not and will not impact our sailing time and I take that pretty seriously. My wife has a zero tolerance policy for breakdowns when cruising, especially considering what I do......;)
Ahhh... happy is the man who works to please his wife!:)
 
#39 ·
A choice between maintenance and sailing? Go sailing. I would never buy a project boat or a wooden boat. Occasionally there is a conflict; I dislike working with paint and epoxy in the off-season when the weather is sketchy, so I haul in the summer and work very fast.

But mostly it is a choice between projects and...
* Watching TV. Often I have some project I have brought home and can take to the workroom. Generally more pleasant and rewarding that the tripe on the tube (do kids even get the origin of the term?).
* Work on the house. Again, I work on the house weeknights, not on weekends if it can be avoided.
* Doing nothing.
Projects are better.
 
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