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Flying Scot - did I buy the wrong boat?

80K views 87 replies 51 participants last post by  omfosso 
#1 ·
This has been my first season with a Flying Scot. I think I may have bought the wrong boat.

I'm a novice sailor. I've taken the ASA 101 class last spring and chartered several times. Those were on things like a Capri 22, O'Day 25, Catalina 25. I do not have years of experience.

I bought a Flying Scot based on the reputation as stable and good family boats. I did not buy it to race.

My Scot has been very responsive - it sails in light wind and reacts quickly to my changes. I now think it may be too responsive for my skill level. I'm nervous that if I don't anticipate what's going to happen, I could get into trouble easily.

I don't want the risk of capsizing. Of course it is possible in any boat, but I want something where the risk is very small. I now realize that the Scot has a higher risk of capsizing than something with a fixed keel. I think that is basic boat design that I didn't appreciate enough.

My wife has no sailing experience and is looking for a lounging experience (newspaper, cold drink etc). I have two kids (6 and 9) that have loved sailing, love the water. My wife is not interested in ending up in the water. My kids would probably say they'd like to fall off, but I think they'd actually get scared and it could put them off sailing.

I have a wet slip on a lake, so the advantage of being able to trailer a Scot are not important to me.

I want to emphasize that my interactions with Flying Scot Inc have been great. Also, other Scot sailors have been extremely nice and helpful. I crewed in a race once and it was a blast.

I think my issue is that I didn't match the pros/cons of the Scot with my personal menu of desires. I think I bought a boat that is great for an experienced sailor, or someone that is fine with some capsizes.

What do you think?

Do you agree that a slightly larger fixed keel boat (like a Capri 22) would be better suited for me? I expect it won't be as resopnsive in light winds, but it would be more stable in moderate or heavy winds. I'm not interested in overnighting, so the down-below area isn't important (part of the reason the Scot was attractive). I wanted/want a bigger cockpit area.

I now have a better appreciation for what people say about buying a boat - that is is a very personal decision and differnt for everyone!

Thanks in advance.
 
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#2 ·
Could you try sailing with one reef in the main until you get more comfortable?...smaller/no jib?
 
#4 ·
Flying Scots are really nice boats. I owned one for a few years and had a blast. They are really very stable and you should never experience a capsize if you are not pushing it (e.g., racing) and pay the least bit of attention. The local sailing centers near DC teach on Scots and that's what they rent to the new sailors. I'd take manatee's advice and reef until you are more comfortable. No shame in that. Pick your weather window. Also, never cleat the main sheet. If you feel you are losing control, just let go of the sheet. The boat will settle down nicely.

All that said, a CB boat generally will not be as stable as a keel boat. So, if it would help you and your family to enjoy sailing, instead of being anxious, I'd say trade in the Scot for something else. The point is to have a great time and want to get out on the water.

Just my 2 cents.
 
#5 ·
I'd guess that most Flying Scot's that were rigged for racing do not come with reefing points. There were no reef points on my Lightning 19' (similar sized center boarder).

I think you have discovered the essence and personality of a Flying Scot: nimble, responsive, fast and a bit tender (tends to heel quickly). Most keel boats will be much more forgiving, stable and not at all likely to capsize. They will also be slower and less sporty - but if you can live with that and that is what you want = now you know.

Before buying your next boat you should gain some familiarity with it to figure out it's personality; preferably go for test sails on different models.

did you like the Catalina 25' you sailed on? There is a version of the C25 that has a fixed fin keel which should be the most stable, as long as it does not have the "tall rig" mast. Standard rig with fixed fin keel is what I'd suggest.

Hope you have no trouble unloading your Flying Scot.
 
#6 ·
I have never sailed a flying scott so I wont comment on the boat specifically. As for your ability and therefor safety, with time and practice you will become a skilled sailor. The trepidation you feel now will pass. As was mentioned earlier it will likely be a big help to bring a more experienced sailor with you. Point out the areas that give you concern. It might as simple as sailing with a reef until your more comfortable.

Best of luck and don't hesitate to ask the group here for help. There is a wealth of knowledge around this place.

Brad
 
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#7 ·
You don't reef a boat like the Flying Scot, you just "depower" and hang on and hike your ass off. Very few dinghies have reef points and your boat, without ballast is a dinghy. It's a dinghy Caleb and has to be sailed like a dinghy. I know the boat well but I've never sailed one. My guess is that it would be hard as hell to capsize. You'd have to be trying. That boat will tip on it's ear and then most probably round up and dump the wind out of the sails and then right itself.

The shape is funky with that big fat bow but the boats were very popular in the Mid west in the 60's. Just go at it slowly and whn in doubt let the sheet out.
You'll be fine. I am pretty darn certain you bought the right boat.
 
#88 ·
it's difficult to capsize a Scot but i have done it a few times. But it's easy to right and continue sailing. it generally takes on very little water. I'm very comfortable soloing in my scot even flying the spinnacker in light winds. best dinghy I've ever sailed. At a regatta Riverside NJ The lightning next to me capsized the sailor jumped onto the deck of my scot. all was well my scot barely rocked. Herb 'Flying Turkey' my friend Kay gave me the nickname, Get out there and sail.
 
#8 ·
My Flying Scot's sail (a fairly new boat) could be reefed. It had "roller reefing" in that you rolled up the sail on the boom and you could make the sail as small as you wanted. (With some loss of efficient shape, but who cares...you aren't racing.)

The rental Scot's in DC have traditional slab reefing. They wouldn't rent these boats to newbies if they weren't easy to keep upright.
 
#9 ·
I do not know how a newbie in sailing, who does not know how much he wants to invest in the sport, does not know what type of sailing he wants to do, or even if he will get sea sick, can pick a boat he will stick with for several years. There are so many types and choices of boats out there.
My story,
My wife and I sailed a daysailer for two summers 30 some years ago. I always wanted to try it again, especially as I neared retirement age.
So I bought a 17' Newport for $1k w/ trailer. Admiral went along with that because of the cheap price. Then I needed an outboard and next thing we knew we had about $2500 into it. BUT, that starter boat was what we needed to figure out if we still like sailing and wanted ti invest more into the hobby. It showed us we hated trailering, we needed a boat with a cabin and we needed a boat we could sit up in without getting wacked by the boom.
We also needed something we could do some relaxing sails that was much more stable.
Within the year we moved to an Oday 25. Perfect boat for a second boat. Easy to sail, stable, can handle heavier winds or we can just put up the sails and sail while laying back and sipping our fruity drinks.
Maybe some people can pick their first boats right the first time but as I was advised my first boat will definitely not be my last boat and they were right. Even our second boat is a learner boat.
So, play with your boat and remember one thing. You need to have the Admiral on board and if you and the admiral decide on a type of sailing that appeals to you, and the boat you have is the wrong one for that type of sailing, bite the bullet and get the one you feel you will be happy with.
 
#11 · (Edited)
you have a place on the water so keep the scott they are great boats to learn in. before long your kids will be sailing it and dad and mom will need their own boat. something that mom can sit in with a glass of something cold and a book to read while your kids sail circles around you.
Look at the Rhodes 19 a great boat comes fixed keel or centerboard
 
#12 ·
A Flying Scot is a great first boat for you and your family. They are beamy, roomy and quite stable for a CB boat of that size. That said, in all but light air, a Scot is more of an active rather than passive sailing experience. It's a great boat for you and your wife to sharpen your skills and enjoy some great daysailing adventures. You would have to try pretty hard to capsize a Scot -- not that you couldn't, but it would be pretty difficult. Go out in conditions suited to your abilities and the comfort of your passengers. You shouldn't put the boat on its ear when you're out -- it's a slow way to sail anyway -- but you should help your family understand that heeling is part of sailing. Remember that your wife and kids will get their cues from you -- if you appear anxious when the boat heels, they will be anxious. If you explain why you're heeling and that it's normal, they will learn to be relaxed. As far as reading the paper and enjoying a drink, a Scot may not be the ideal boat for that (except in light air), but I might suggest you get the admiral involved in sailing. Moving up to a larger boat will be easier once she's hooked and you have her support. The admiral on Grey Goose enjoys sailing in most conditions and we both still enjoy what she jokingly refers to as 'cocktail sailing' -- conditions where you won't spill your marguerita :). I say stick with and sail your Flying Scot for at least a year before considering a change.
 
#13 ·
I was raised on dinghies starting back in '74, sailing many different designs under 20' over the years since. Over a decade ago I taught adults to sail on Flying Scots for two seasons at one of the metro DC marinas Jiminri mentioned. From that experience I have to say the Scots were the most stable and, in a blow, forgiving monohull design under 20' I've ever sailed. My advice is simple: give yourself some time underway aboard your FS before giving up on it. You'll grow into it and you'll be glad you took the time to adjust. If you also sail other dinghy designs for the sake of comparison you'll likely discover the gem you currently own. Failing that, I'm almost tempted to suggest you email me for the right to first refusal when you sell the Scot.
 
#16 ·
If you go on any forum for dinghy racers, a Flying Scot would be described as like sailing a brick outhouse. They have to be about the most stable centerboard boat ever made!
That said, they WILL capsize if you really put some effort into it. I would try about 30 knots and have the family all sit on the low side :rolleyes:

That said, this boat is not ideal for reading and snoozing underway. It CAN capsize and I have a feeling it is a project to get back up again. I would consider doing the following:
1. Sell the FS to a local racer.
2. Buy a Sunfish or some other small cheap CB boat that can be quickly righted to play around with and learn to sail better. Lots of various types around and the key is they don't really hold water. Laser is another example, it can be righted and be underway in 20 seconds. AMong other things the "dreaded capsize" will no longer be a scary mystery.
3. Buy a 20-25 foot keelboat. Unless badly designed, keelboats *cannot* be capsized by wind. The worst thing that wind can do is lay them over about 90 degrees until someone lets a sail loose. If you get the right boat you'll have cockpit seats long enough to stretch out on and a small cabin to hide from storms and store things in. I don't know what you can find around you, but way back in the day the Cal 20 was ideal for this use.

Also suggest you crew for a FS racer. That will be fun :cool:
 
#17 ·
Don't give up on your Scot. Just buy a used smaller set of sails, like from a 14 or 15 foot boat, and keep using them until all of you guys are comfortable and have learned how to act on your boat when sailing. Smaller sails will make the boat more stable and less responsive - but in stronger winds you will still sail fast. Then you can go back to the big sails and have real fun. Scot is an awesome dinghy but it does require some skill to sail nicely.
 
#19 ·
There was a FS at the marina where I bought my boat. It was parked on a trailer near the entrance. I drooled over that boat EVERY time I went down to work on my boat. You may or may not decide to keep it, but PLEASE enjoy it while you have it!
Also, as much as I like my keel boat, keep in mind that there is a lot more maintenance. Lighting, plumbing, cushions, rigging, etc etc etc.
 
#21 ·
I've sailed on Scotts a lot. I think it's a great first boat. It's possible to flip one, but not that easy (I've never flipped one and I flip a Hobie about every other time I take one out so I'm not that conservative when I daysail :D)
 
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#22 · (Edited)
I learned to fly on a tree lined short grass field. As my flying progressed to larger more advanced aircraft the question of where i took my primary training always came up. it was met with with the same response from almost everyone _ You flew there? Yup and because i didn't know it was supposedly impossible to land a plane there, for me, and everyone else who flew there, it wasn't. We didn't know any better. We were taught by people who knew how to get it done, and because of that, right out of primary training we were better pilots than many.

So it goes with dinghy sailing. There is no cruise control. You can't let the boat get ahead of you. Learn to sail a dinghy well and you will be a better sailor for it.

You sail in the Delaware River? If so the New Castle Sailing Club ( think that's the name) in New Castle Delaware sails a fleet of Flying Scots. Real nice people! I'm sure for a case of beer they would be more than happy to give you some tiller observation time along with ways of detuning the Scot into the don't spill the tea boat you want it to be. Bottom line, if i can sail the grossly over powered Hobie 16 and Nacra 17 without flipping in 20mph winds, you can do the same with a FS. No need to give up on the boat. Just learn how to do it.

Also the advice to get some capsize experience on a sun fish or laser, good stuff!!!
 
#28 ·
I did my first lessons at MD43. Short grass field, hill in the middle, tall trees at the end. We even did NIGHT work there :eek:

That said, if the guy's wife is unhappy not being able to stretch out and relax he may gain a lot of skills and lose his crew with the FS.

I learned to fly on a tree lined short grass field. As my flying progressed to larger more advanced aircraft the question of where i took my primary training always came up. it was met with with the same response from almost everyone _ You flew there? Yup and because i didn't know it was supposedly impossible to land a plane there, for me, and everyone else who flew there, it wasn't. We didn't know any better. We were taught by people who knew how to get it done, and because of that, right out of primary training we were better pilots than many.

So it goes with dinghy sailing. There is no cruise control. You can't let the boat get ahead of you. Learn to sail a dinghy well and you will be a better sailor for it.

You sail in the Delaware River? If so the New Castle Sailing Club ( think that's the name) in New Castle Delaware sails a fleet of Flying Scots. Real nice people! I'm sure for a case of beer they would be more than happy to give you some tiller observation time along with ways of detuning the Scot into the don't spill the tea boat you want it to be. Bottom line, if i can sail the grossly over powered Hobie 16 and Nacra 17 without flipping in 20mph winds, you can do the same with a FS. No need to give up on the boat. Just learn how to do it.

Also the advice to get some capsize experience on a sun fish or laser, good stuff!!!
 
#23 ·
I learned to sail on Flying Scots at one of the marinas here in DC. I then sailed them for years on the Potomac. You really can't capsize this boat unless you are out in a gale.

However, if you feel like you are going to capsize, you may need to learn more about sail trim and dumping air in a puff. I've been out in 30 knot puffs in this boat and it will heel alarmingly. Just ease the main quickly and let the air out in the puffs. You should also be able to reef your sails but do this on shore before heading out in stronger winds.

One of my favorite features of this boat is its stability and performance in light air. That said, this is not a 'sit and drink wine' cruiser boat. You may have not bought the wrong boat for yourself but maybe the wrong boat for your wife. But you'll learn a lot sailing this boat if you decide to keep her for a while.

E.
 
#25 ·
That said, this is not a 'sit and drink wine' cruiser boat.

E.
When I used to race FS's, I used to keep my beer in a coozy with line around my neck, because even with two people, you need all your hands a lot on a Scott (especially flying a chute). :D
 
#26 ·
As others have said, it's not easy to capsize a Scot, you pretty much have to want to capsize to have that happen. Whether or not the main is reefable depends on how the boat is rigged. Mine (and most class legal boats) is not set up for reefing. I have not personally seen a boat set up for reefing by rolling the main around the boom, but at the least you'd have to have end-boom sheeting and most boats(even my 48 year old Scot) have mid-boom sheeting. I think you can get a main with traditional slab reefing reefpoints, they're not class legal, but if you're not racing that doesn't matter and being able to reef the main in higher winds (15+) would make the boat a bit more relaxing to sail with your family on breezy days. Other than that, they're great boats for daysailing, nice big cockpit and easy to sail. :)
 
#27 ·
I agree with bljones about your wife's desires. A small keelboat with a small cabin would be a good choice for several reasons. It's a great place to put a cooler, extra clothes, jackets etc. A small porta-poti for the kids. You may also get an idea if you want to grow into a larger boat for weekend cruising. And your wife may be more relaxed on a seat than the deck. Some shoal draft keel boats also have centerboards which help a boat go to windward better and they are easily trailer-able. Keel depth may depend a lot on the water depth in your lake and slip.

Check out Sailboatdata.com for specs on a bunch of boats. Some smaller keelboats are also great performers.

The only downside :) is that your kids will love the cabin and will try to talk you into sleeping overnight.
-CH
 
#29 ·


While this my wife of 32 years favored position and weather



A gradual and progressive program of increasing her confidence that the boat is unlikely to sink has resulted in smiling on the 25 knot days and taking the helm as required while I do stuff on LONG TRIPS



And keep in mind my wife has a well above normal fear of the water and if I had forced her into things to fast we would be missing a lot of great times ;)
 
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