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View Poll Results: Bare minimum cost of a 3 year circumnavigation? (including the boat)
$0 - 9,999 3 4.62%
$10,000 - 24,999 2 3.08%
$25,000 - 49,999 4 6.15%
$50,000 - 74,999 10 15.38%
$75,000 - 99,999 6 9.23%
$100,000 - 199,999 21 32.31%
$200,000 - 299,999 11 16.92%
$300,000 - 399,999 2 3.08%
$400,000 - 499,999 1 1.54%
$500,000 + 5 7.69%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 09-10-2013
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Re: The economics of sailing around the world

I t *could* be done for close to free if you got some old wreck donated by a marina and ate whatever you could catch, but this is barely a step up from bare survival in a liferaft.
IMHO someone not adverse to a lot of hard work and discomfort might do it for $50K all in. Think the Cal 25 that went around a few times
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Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Wow, BeBe spent a LOT on haul-outs! I am sweating over $6.50/foot!
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Old 09-10-2013
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Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I don't want to go on an extended cruise, if I have to live on austerity to do it. You may feel differently.
Money means a lot in world cruising.
I just looked back at my website to find a representative photo of what money gives you that is important. There were lots, but also none, if ya know what I mean:


These little cuties dont come cheap! For a start you have to get to Indonesia. Then its a 2 day rented boat, have to leave someone on your own boat for 'security'

The boat trip (cheapest!) is a boat with just yourselves, 3 or 4 crew. all tres romantic etc


It costs more than some poster said it cost for his whole circumnavigation!

Buy who can give up the chance to have this memory in your life:



The thing is that EVERY country has these unmissable things that, yes that hoary old cliché, can change your life or be a life memory. What one cant you have because you decided not to save up for it?


Mark
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Old 09-10-2013
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Re: The economics of sailing around the world

I think the BeBe spreadsheet is at the top end. It all depends on your entertainment budget. If you want to explore inland and do the tourist thing, it would be very expensive, like a vacation for 3 years. If you mainly want to anchor out and cook aboard, and not be flying home every couple of months, it would be less expensive. If you start out with a boat in good shape and experience no large breakdowns, the only expenses in addition to what you would spend ashore would be customs and immigration charges, The Panama Canal, and maybe fuel. Even the fuel would be close to what you'd put in the car at home, especially if you drive a guzzler. Boat expenses occur at home as well. Food may be a bit more but not if you plan well. You're not paying to heat or cool a house. You're not wearing out (depreciating) a car. You're not paying a large electric bill, phone bill. If you have a house, you can consider renting it out which might go a long way to put the whole trip in the black. There's more to figuring out the bottom line than someone's spreadsheet of expenses.

I agree with Minnewaska that doing it on austerity is really pointless. If you can't get out and explore the places you go, what's the point? Not having done this (yet), I didn't enter anything on the poll but I would guess three years would total 120k to be able to enjoy it.
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Last edited by smurphny; 09-10-2013 at 11:15 AM.
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Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Money means a lot in world cruising.
I just looked back at my website to find a representative photo of what money gives you that is important. There were lots, but also none, if ya know what I mean:


These little cuties dont come cheap! For a start you have to get to Indonesia. Then its a 2 day rented boat, have to leave someone on your own boat for 'security'

The boat trip (cheapest!) is a boat with just yourselves, 3 or 4 crew. all tres romantic etc


It costs more than some poster said it cost for his whole circumnavigation!

Buy who can give up the chance to have this memory in your life:



The thing is that EVERY country has these unmissable things that, yes that hoary old cliché, can change your life or be a life memory. What one cant you have because you decided not to save up for it?


Mark
Mark, let's be honest here, being able to throw 100Gs plus at a boat and spend 50 to 200k per year for a dream sail around the world, all while having no working income, isn't about "deciding to save up for it."

Folks, at this level of dream lifestyle are financially independant to begin with. Some are trust fund babies, others bootstrapped themselves to seven figure net worths. The spending is totally descretionary. Once spent it is gone! None are spending money that will be needed later to fund retirement or children's education. No one in good conscience is going to sail off to Bora Bora leaving the kids to fend for themselves with college loans. None are going to spend money that will be needed to produce income later. This is play money! And it's a bank roll the average person will never have.

While it would be nice for the average person to be able to save enough to spend several hundred thousand dollars producing memories with dream vacations, for the average person they've got to tone that way down. The money has to go a long way. Survey says, that if a couple is healthy at age 65 one of the spouses will live to 90. If they retire at age 65, that's 25 years of no income and increasing expenses. For the average middle class worker in the United States, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for dream chasing is not possible. Of course dream chasing at a lesser financial level is not only possible but advisable!

Last edited by TJC45; 09-10-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by wind_magic View Post
I think it just depends on the person.

On land, some can live in a tent in the wilderness for a few bucks a day, and some have to live in the penthouse in downtown New York. It's the same with boats, some can live in a little boat at anchor eating ramen and drinking water, and some are only happy if they are on a crewed yacht eating steak every day. It's all about expectations.
It really is about expectations.

The juxtaposition of seeing a million dollar motorhome parked in a space at a campground next to bicycle tourist in tents has to be seen to be appreciated. And, just who is creating the better memories depends only on your point of view.
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Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJC45 View Post
Folks, at this level of dream lifestyle are financially independant to begin with. Some are trust fund babies, others bootstrapped themselves to seven figure net worths.
Folks I've met have worked hard, saved hard, invested hard, and gone without many, many, many things to now enjoy their retirement.

Worked for the trips around the world. Sure some had some luck like spouses not dying, or kids hitting up not jail, or houses not buring down... but apart from that its just been work and saving.


Mark
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Re: The economics of sailing around the world

So the only reason everyone is not a mulit-millionaire is lack of work ethic Really
Some of the hardest working most frugal people I know are a bare step ahead of poverty and their dream is saving enough for 2 weeks at the ocean (downie_ocean in local slang) instead of 1.

I am really glad some people can save enough to do this kind of thing. I used to make a fair living working on their boats and this keep my own boat running
It varies between insulting and vastly out of touch with reality to think ANYONE can just go do this if only they quit wasting money on lotto tickets or whatever. I would tell anyone that going to the Bahamas NOW in an old Alberg 30 and eating fresh caught grouper beats the hell out of waiting for your maybe one day 7 or 8 figure bank account.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Folks I've met have worked hard, saved hard, invested hard, and gone without many, many, many things to now enjoy their retirement.

Worked for the trips around the world. Sure some had some luck like spouses not dying, or kids hitting up not jail, or houses not buring down... but apart from that its just been work and saving.


Mark
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Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coquina View Post

It varies between insulting and vastly out of touch with reality to think ANYONE can just go do this if only they quit wasting money on lotto tickets or whatever. I would tell anyone that going to the Bahamas NOW in an old Alberg 30 and eating fresh caught grouper beats the hell out of waiting for your maybe one day 7 or 8 figure bank account.
Exactly...

I also think the mistake made by some, is the common tendency to set the bar immediately upon a circumnavigation... Depending upon your location, there are many, MANY more achievable alternatives that I think can be equally satisfying... Those of us here on the East Coast are particularly fortunate in this regard, with the incredible variety of choices at our disposal, one could easily spend several years doing a North Atlantic Circle, for instance...

I used to think of sailing around the world as being the ultimate achievement for a sailor, but I'm past that now... The logistics are simply too daunting for me at the moment, and I've come to accept I'm far better off focusing on trying to do circular voyages of a year at a time, such as a circuit of the North Atlantic islands & Caribbean, for starters...

For anyone thinking about this, I highly recommend Jimmy Cornell's WORLD VOYAGE PLANNER... It's way more than a re-hash of his WORLD CRUISING ROUTES, he outlines a myriad of circular voyages in every ocean of the world, originating from every continent... Fantastic fireside reading, once you pick this book up, you won't soon put it down, and he'll have you thinking about possibilities and alternatives you're never dreamed of before...

NEW: World Voyage Planner, Jimmy Cornell?s Latest Book | Cornell Sailing Publications and Sailing Events
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Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Folks I've met have worked hard, saved hard, invested hard, and gone without many, many, many things to now enjoy their retirement.

Worked for the trips around the world. Sure some had some luck like spouses not dying, or kids hitting up not jail, or houses not buring down... but apart from that its just been work and saving.


Mark
You may have met some people who have done that, but,as a financial advisor who manages over 500 million dollars of other people's money I'm telling it like it is. For the average middle class person bringing down less than a six figure income over a lifetime taking $300k or more for a five year circumnavigation isn't in the budget.

That said, that same person can retire with a seven figure net worth. let's do some math. Let's say they retire with a 401k worth 1.5 million dollars. That's the lion's share of their investable assets. That 1.5 mil has to support this person or this couple for the rest of their lives. They are done trying to make money. Time to let the money they've saved work for them. No more taking a "shot' in the market. No more investing in a start up business. At this point in life those risks are behind them. BTW, everyone here over age 55 got 1.5 mil or more in their 401K?

This person's income before retirement was $100,000 a year. If invested conservatively that 1.5 mil, if all invested for income, will bring about 4% a year. That's with taking some risk. That replaces $60,000 of the $100,000 income. But there is a problem. If 100% of the assets are invested for income what about inflation? Realistically only 60 to 70% of the assets should be invested for income. The rest for growth as an inflation hedge. Investing just over a million dollars for income at 4% gives us just over $40,000 in income. That 40k will grow every year or should. Of course in a real live case the balance point is someplace in between 40k on the low side and 60k on the high side. Increased risk alternatives abound that could bring the income up to 100k. But the point is, this guy went from making $100k a year saving like mad and is only making 40k to 60k in retirement. He's already short!

Now lets take $300k off the top of those assets for a round the world trip. We are now working with with 1.2 million. Everyone reading this has 1.2 million in the bank right? OK, it's not a bad number, but for our guy it's not enough. At 4% low risk, 100% invested for income, he'll pull $48,000 a year. Less than half his working income.

If he goes the recommended 70/30 he's down to $33,600. He's now making about a third of his working income. Of course social security will kick in at some point. But, does a 66% income cut work for anyone here?

A million dollars is a lot of money until you have to live off it while protecting it. Then not so much!

Again, it's not about tightening your belt. And, for most people it's not about the economics of sailing. It's about the economics of living. Every dollar spent is one dollar less that can used to provide for the future. if you are wealthy enough this is not an issue. For most folks, it is where they live financially.

I deal with this every day and at every level. From joe lunchbox rolling over his 401k to corp exec dealing with his stock options, to high flying business owner deciding how much risk he should take. In the end, the answers are never easy.

Last edited by TJC45; 09-10-2013 at 04:12 PM.
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