The economics of sailing around the world - Page 9 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


View Poll Results: Bare minimum cost of a 3 year circumnavigation? (including the boat)
$0 - 9,999 3 4.62%
$10,000 - 24,999 2 3.08%
$25,000 - 49,999 4 6.15%
$50,000 - 74,999 10 15.38%
$75,000 - 99,999 6 9.23%
$100,000 - 199,999 21 32.31%
$200,000 - 299,999 11 16.92%
$300,000 - 399,999 2 3.08%
$400,000 - 499,999 1 1.54%
$500,000 + 5 7.69%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

Like Tree59Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #81  
Old 09-13-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 9,336
Thanks: 10
Thanked 154 Times in 140 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: The economics of sailing around the world

I relate to the idea of cruising for three straight years. I never really grasped why circumnavigating was necessary, beyond the sense of accomplishment that one has sailed around the globe. It certainly give one creds.

However, if one's purpose is to travel, explore, witness other cultures, etc, it just isn't necessary to circumnavigate at all. Perhaps this is beyond the scope of this thread, but it could impact cost. Crossing an ocean requires a different boat and equipment than a three year coastal cruise.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #82  
Old 09-13-2013
Coquina's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 448
Thanks: 4
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Coquina is on a distinguished road
Re: The economics of sailing around the world

One thing I discovered in my travels was that EU/Commonwealth citizens were far more foot loose than Americans. They had their basic health care and retirement more or less covered. Here in the modern USA you fall off the career track, aren't contributing to the IRA/401K, aren't getting social security credit for working, off the company health insurance, etc. etc. and life can look pretty and that was before the current problems where finding your way back into the workforce is not a given!

OTOH things have never been better for a young person or couple in some ways. Used boats have NEVER been cheaper. I am sure some searching and 10-20K$ will get you a useable boat and in many ways equipment can be much cheaper now. Most people literally have more nav power in the phone they already own then a commercial ship had a few decades ago. With the decline in the used boating market all kinds of used equipment can be found cheap by a good scrounger. Health insurance issues are usually easier to deal with when young and healthy. The one problem I see is that the idea of low budget adventurers being people to look up to seems to not be the case in many parts of the world. I get the impression that with the advent of world cruising as a rich old person activity instead of a young broke person activity, many places see a boat as an endless source of $$$$ and the ones that can't pay up are not wanted
krisscross likes this.
__________________
Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #83  
Old 09-13-2013
Harborless's Avatar
Blue Horizons
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 1,052
Thanks: 4
Thanked 19 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 5
Harborless is on a distinguished road
Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
The posted spreadsheet is on the upper end but 10k isn't gonna get anywhere near what what it costs to refit an old boat. Just the BASIC electronics (radar, chartplotter, SSB, VHF, solar or wind power, depth finder, charts for plotter, spares for alternator, starter, etc.) are going to eat up 10k before even thinking about replacing rigging, sails, rotten cored decks, ground tackle, chain, drag devices, liferaft, etc., etc., etc. I've just done this to my old boat and have spent three times that amount.
In this market 15k will buy a deccent shape 30ish foot sailboat. I refitted a complete lemon for 12k including aall electrical,, standing and running rigging plus many many more things. I would not have a water maker, microwave, and many of the latest gadgets. I practice with my sextant and use paralell rulers and dividers. I use a knot stick and an old analog wind guage good up to 69 knots. Again each there own..

I just dont want the frugal mariner to feel like there is no point in trying unless you have 50k a year. If your willing and able, you can cruise for very cheap in a safe seaworthy boat while still enjoying your destinations with immense pleasure via backpacking, bike riding, and dive bars and bare beaches.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #84  
Old 09-13-2013
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,473
Thanks: 29
Thanked 92 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 5
MarkofSeaLife is on a distinguished road
Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
However, if one's purpose is to travel, explore, witness other cultures, etc, it just isn't necessary to circumnavigate at all. .
I agree.
But if you want to do more than just one ocean then you 'must' circumnavigate (Unless you want to sell your boat in some foreign country; or buy in a foreign country)

For example: If I am from the USA and start in New York and do the Atlantic and want to do the WHOLE south Pacific (not just Panama and Mexico) then I end up in Australia with a 6,500 NM UPWIND sail back to Panama and 2,000 back to NYC. So its easier to do Asia and Africa and back around that way with the wind up my bum.

Its the same in any other ocean. If you want more than one ocean then circumnavigating is the 'only' way to go.

Interesting what you said about "the sense of accomplishment that one has sailed around the globe. It certainly give one creds."
The sense of accomplishment, for me, wasnt high till I did the last 10,000 miles solo. even then it was treated as ho-hum but other sailors unless they were American. Americans seem to think its a big deal.
It does give you 'cred'! It stops wankers coming up to you and saying "You shouldn't have your snubber like that!" I can say: "Well, on my first circumnavigation...." that shuts the mugs up!

I dont really agree with the thought that a circumnavigating boat needs to be hugely different from other crruising boats... unless we are talking about weekend sailers that pop up and down the Chesapeake. The one error I think people who set out to do a tropical circumnavigation do is over think (or read too many forums) and buy a too old, and too solid, too traditional, too full keel, too poorly ventilated, too 'sea kindly' old heap of old style crap just because they think its a blue water boat.

For 30,000 nms they are bound down to a stupid decision made from reading horror stories on forums. They end up driving a maintenance nightmare, their wives walk off and the wallet escapes. Retirement descends into a living hell where some guy hung himself by the neck off his mast because he could afford to go on, couldn't sell the boat and couldn't afford to go back. (The marina, which was free at the time, towed his boat out, anchored it on the far side of the bay and stole his dinghy and OB as the new marina work boat.)

The horror stories are simply stories. The real horror comes to those that read them and believe them.

One horror story in the making is these threads where they say you can live circumnavigating for 3 years on $10,000. I'm sorry but you can't. I can't. No one can.

If I write a book I'm gunna call it: Circumnavigation: It was Nice. Nothing Bad Happened.

But will that sell?

I do believe in "Go Now"; I do believe it can be done on a tight budget. I do believe we can die tomorrow so we must make use of today. There is a whole world to see and seeing it will educate us more and better than anything else in the world.
I do NOT believe horror stories. I dont believe in floating containers. One doesn't need 1 inch think fiberglass. They didnt make them better in the old days. We make them better now.

But mostly I believe if people did not read the horror stories more people would be willing to go further than the Bahamas from the USA; go further from the Med from Europe; go further than the Whitsundays from Australia.

The world is our oyster and I hate people stealing clichés!



Mark
HaleyF likes this.
__________________
Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 09-13-2013 at 10:03 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MarkofSeaLife For This Useful Post:
oslokid (09-13-2013), outbound (09-13-2013), Ziaduck (09-13-2013)
  #85  
Old 09-13-2013
Group9's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,606
Thanks: 20
Thanked 60 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 5
Group9 is on a distinguished road
Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harborless View Post
Well this seems ludicrously expensive. 50K a year? Get real.
15k for the boat. 10k for the refit. 25k for 3 year circum nav. If your sailing a 50' with washing machines and flying to the states for Dr. visits and shipping boats via containers then I suppose 50k a year is your budget. Each there own.
See you in Micronesia.
That does seem high. I went on a cruise ship about ten years ago and they had a price where you could live on the ship year round. The minimum price was only like $73,000 a year for that.
__________________
On the northern Gulf of Mexico.


"Best thing to do is get her out on the ocean. If anything's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there." Captain Ron Rico
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #86  
Old 09-13-2013
Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,577
Thanks: 5
Thanked 86 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 9
killarney_sailor is on a distinguished road
Re: The economics of sailing around the world

I agree with Mark about the inherent logic of a circumnavigation. One thing just leads to another and before you know it you are back to where you started. People talk about Atlantic circles and Pacific circles but I would not be at all impressed with the Japan to North America leg of a Pacific circle (Atlantic looks nicer). That is a long way, cool, wet and potentially stormy.
__________________
Back to Grenada in early December. Not sure I will remember how to sail. Will spend the winter and early spring in the Caribbean and then head to Bermuda and the northeast US. Still trying to decide if we will bring the boat to Canada, either in 2015 or 2016.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #87  
Old 09-13-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 406
Thanks: 9
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 2
TJC45 is on a distinguished road
Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Cred? I agree that a circumnavigation gives you experience. But cred? Not so much. Not that it doesn't give you cred. It's just not automatic. While I'm impressed by people who accomplish such feats, it is more for the one minded commitment it takes to get it done rather than any skill or knowledge that comes in to play. I am impressed by circumnavigators the same way i am impressed by marathon runners. Or, bike tourist that ride from Virginia Beach to Redondo Beach. Do that, and yeah ya got me, I'm impressed! Am I going to listen to you when you tell me how to load my bike for the next tour? Maybe, maybe not.

Last edited by TJC45; 09-13-2013 at 12:33 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #88  
Old 09-13-2013
Coquina's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 448
Thanks: 4
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Coquina is on a distinguished road
Re: The economics of sailing around the world

I am impressed by *some* of them. Some seem to have blundered their way around surviving on blind luck. Some of their boats I would love to have and some I would not take anyplace I couldn't swim home from.
TJC45 likes this.
__________________
Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #89  
Old 09-13-2013
just ducky
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NH
Posts: 935
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Don0190 is on a distinguished road
Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post


I dont really agree with the thought that a circumnavigating boat needs to be hugely different from other crruising boats... unless we are talking about weekend sailers that pop up and down the Chesapeake. The one error I think people who set out to do a tropical circumnavigation do is over think (or read too many forums) and buy a too old, and too solid, too traditional, too full keel, too poorly ventilated, too 'sea kindly' old heap of old style crap just because they think its a blue water boat.

Isn't this the model that is followed on all cruising forums? And isn't it normally driven by people with some boat not up to even up to doing a long coastal cruise, but who somehow know what is needed to go "bluewater", because they read it in a old boat or forum?
__________________
Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #90  
Old 09-13-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,936
Thanks: 0
Thanked 140 Times in 124 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: The economics of sailing around the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
I agree with Mark about the inherent logic of a circumnavigation. One thing just leads to another and before you know it you are back to where you started. People talk about Atlantic circles and Pacific circles but I would not be at all impressed with the Japan to North America leg of a Pacific circle (Atlantic looks nicer). That is a long way, cool, wet and potentially stormy.
That appears to be changing, actually, with more cruisers treating the Pacific as a destination in itself, and not necessarily part of a Milk Run circumnavigation... These numbers and the trends they indicate from Jimmy Cornell are from a couple of years ago, with with the subsequent 'closure' of the Red Sea route to most, have perhaps even increased in the interim:

Quote:

Also, compared to the past, when many boats in the South Pacific continued on a circumnavigation, close to half of the North American boats and others now appear to view the Pacific as the destination, and therefore take time to explore the islands.

...

As alluded to previously, about half of the North American boats now turn north from Tahiti. It’s reckoned that about 80 boats sail the circuit from the U.S. West Coast to Tahiti and Hawai’i, a circle that some attempt to complete in one season. Those who sail the longer loop to New Zealand return to Tahiti in June and continue to the mainland U.S. via Hawai’i. Those who limit themselves to the shorter loop sail north from Tahiti at the end of the safe season in the South Pacific, and either spend the winter in Hawai’i and sail home the following spring, or return to the South Pacific for another season of cruising. The number of arrivals in Tahiti is usually a good indication of the movement of cruising boats in the Pacific basin; 2010 figures supplied by the port authority of Tahiti show a steady increase in recent years, with 826 in 2010 compared to 694 in the previous year, 350 in 2006, and 442 in 2000.

2011 Global Survey of Cruising Sailboats: Pacific Ocean | Cruising World




A Pacific circle with a return to the north is certainly not a trip for everybody, but for sailors like Alvah and Diana Simon, it must have been an incredible voyage...

Where Might & Majesty Meet | Cruising World


TJC45 likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to JonEisberg For This Useful Post:
outbound (09-13-2013)
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Economics of racing? zAr Racing 20 03-22-2010 07:44 PM
Volvo Youth Sailing ISAF World Championship 2006 @ Sail World UK NewsReader News Feeds 0 04-18-2006 09:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:56 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.