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Going to have some winterizing questions.

5K views 37 replies 20 participants last post by  lancelot9898 
#1 ·
I am reading up for my first winterization. When running antifreeze through hose's do I want to just flush with antifreeze or do I want to close seacocks and fill the hose with anti freeze?
 
#3 ·
Ooops, I never do that. At some temp it does freeze, surprisingly high temps!
- yes, it does depend on mix, but even with optimum the freezing point is only just below -30 centigrade.

I usually go for a 50/50 mix (~optimum), and while on the hard let it go through the system. Blow out all the rests with some few seconds dry run.

The seacocks are very sensitive. Should be nearly full open (depends on model, but ...)

/J
 
#4 ·
Hey,

This is going to be long.....

Winterizing a typical cruising boat is pretty easy. It will take some time, especially the first time you do it, but nothing is (or should be) that complicated.

There are 4 things you need to worry about: Engine, domestic cold water, domestic hot water, Head and holding tank. First note there is BIG difference between ANTIFREEZE and COOLANT. COOLANT is what is inside your car engine (and your boat engine too if it is fresh water cooled [not raw water cooled]). ANTIFREEZE is what you use in an RV, Boat, or cbin to prevent the domestic water system from freezing and bursting lines. On a boat, antifreeze is used to winterize the raw water side of the engine. COOLANT may be diluted 50/50, ANTIFREEZE never is (at least none I have ever seen).

For the engine, assuming it is fresh water cooled with a heat exchanger, you need to run antifreeze through the raw water system. If the boat is hauled, you open the seacock, remove the hose from the raw water pump OR seacock (whichever is easier) and then run antifreeze through the engine. On MY boat, I remove the sea water hose from the raw water input side of the pump and drain it by hold it up. Any seatwater just runs out the through hull. I take a gallon jug of antfreeze, place a hose in it, and connect the hose to the raw water input side of the sea water pump. I start the engine and let is suck the antifreeze through the pump, then heat exchanger, then water lift muffler, then out the back of the boat. Since the hose from the through hull to the engine has nothing but air in it, I reconnect it to the water pump.

Assuming your engine coolant is in good shape, the engine is now winterized.

For the domestic water system, I drain the water tanks (disconnect output hose and let water drain into the bilge). I used to run antifreeze through the lines, pressure pump and faucets. Now I just use compressed air to blow the lines out. I drain the water heater, disconnect the output hose and use air to blow all the water out of the lines. If you don't have access to compressed air, then you can pour antifreeze into the water tank and pump it through all the plumbing lines and out the faucets. Be sure to do both hot and cold. Note that if you don't disconnect and bypass the water heater, you will need many gallons of antifreeze to completely fill the water heater. And then in the spring you need to get all that antifreeze out of the heater. That's why I drain my water heater and disconnect the output and blow it dry.

For sinks, head, holding tanks, I pour some antifreeze into the sink and let drain. I leave the seacocks open. For the head I pour antifreeze into the bowl and then pump it through the lines and into the holding tank.

Note that before I start on the water lines I first change the engine oil and oil filter and empty the holding tank.

Good luck,
Barry
 
#5 ·
Agree with Barry. Coolant, mixed to the appropriate low-temp you expect (we do to -50 C up here) and plumbers antifreeze for the house side. Flush it through both systems. On the engine side I test the outflow with a hydrometer to ensure I'm getting the full concentration through the whole system.

I always leave some antifreeze in the water tank and holding tank. I also dump some in my dry bilge.
 
#6 ·
I agree with Barry and the rest of the gang. I use -100 for the engine sea water system (usually 3 gallons). I use -50 for the potable water. I don't have access to compressed air, so I drain the potable system, then fill the tank with 10 gallons antifreeze, then open fawcets starting at the stern working forward. Regarding the water heater, I drain it, the just flush through. It holds six gallons, but it is never full of antifreeze.

Just my opinion.

Chris
 
#11 ·
Well - you can close them if you like to repair or replace them in the spring.

I am not sure where the other poster lives, but us, here in the Great White North (Canada) leave them open (except one guy last winter in our club forgot to leave one open - he spent quite a while replacing the one that cracked when it froze before spring launch.)

Rik
 
#8 ·
Instead of disconnecting hoses to the raw water pump, I take the top off the strainer and fill it with antifreeze. Doing this solo means starting and stopping the engine several times to refill the strainer, since the strainer only holds about a quart of liquid.

I catch some of the water coming out of the exhaust. When it's pink, I know the antifreeze has made it through the system.

For the hot water heater (12 gallons), I use the dilution method. It take a lot of antifreeze, and I'm a fireman's bucket brigade pouring increaingly pink water from the faucet into a big funnel going to the fresh water pump.

At the end, I take sample faucet water (and engine exhaust water) and put it in ziplock bags. Then I put the ziplock bags in the freezer at home to make sure the resulting antifreeze and water mixture stays liquid at 5 degrees.

Don't forget the bilge pump lines. Our hose is longish, so I run antifreeze through it.

Regards,
Brad
 
#10 ·
At the end, I take sample faucet water (and engine exhaust water) and put it in ziplock bags. Then I put the ziplock bags in the freezer at home to make sure the resulting antifreeze and water mixture stays liquid at 5 degrees.

Brad
Yikes! When hosting parties do zip lock bag thing in freezer with Margaritas and Pina Colatas ...note to self...stay out of Brad's freezer especially
late in the evening!
 
#9 ·
Hm, seems at least I act differently ...

for me antifreeze and coolant is the same thing. OK, I know, it is not. But I use the same ingredient, glycol (ethylene or propene) for both.
In the motor, on the "fresh" water side glycol is used to form the coolant. Change every 5 year or so (sometimes more often).
On the raw water side, I run through glycol, usually diluted ~50/50 and blow out all residuals with letting the mtor run until dry. This glycol serves two purposes: no freeze in the raw water system, and then the glycol does some rust preventing as well.

Glycol is of course toxic, very much. All freshwater systems are just emptied. totally. No need for antifreeze (and certainly not glycol). Seacocks left open, but they must be completely emptied - there is s pocket which should be empty.

Never put any glycol in the bilge, as it is not a very nice compound. Bilge should be dry - seldom any problem for me.


The antifreeze that some are using, what is that? Methanol? (you are not using ethanol for that, are you? Or, is that why you look forward to spring?)

Interesting with the differences.

/J
 
#12 ·
one thing I haven't heard and perhaps it is overkill (?), but I did it last year: I drain the engine block and pull the thermostat before running antifreeze through the motor. I had heard that unless the engine is warm, the thermostat stays closed and the antifreeze doesn't run through the block, so, therefor, you need to pull it.

Did it last year, and it started up just fine with the first try in the spring!

thoughts on this?
 
#13 ·
Yes - I pull the thermostat, (and put the housing back on with the thermostat out)



pinch the by-pass hose (in one of those places) with some vise grips (carefully)



and run the potable antifreeze through the engine until it flows out the back pink.

I then hang a sign saying "THERMOSTAT OUT!!!" on the electrical control panel.

Rik
 
#15 ·
Hey,

This is the stuff I use:
PEAK | RV & Marine AntiFreeze | Antifreeze / Coolants | Auto Products

RV & Marine AntiFreeze

PEAK® RV & Marine Antifreeze is formulated for winterizing all types of potable (drinking) water plumbing systems. This product can be used full-strength to winterize boats, recreational vehicles, trailers, vacation homes, swimming pools, and a variety of other winter storage applications. Specific benefits include:

Burst-proof protection to -50°F guaranteed!
Safe for brass, metal, copper and plastic pipes (except acetate)
All ingredients are considered GRAS (Generally Regarded as Safe) by the Food and Drug Administration
No mixing required, can be used full-strength

It's ethanol based and non toxic.

Barry

QUOTE=Jaramaz;1089277]Hm, seems at least I act differently ...

for me antifreeze and coolant is the same thing. OK, I know, it is not. But I use the same ingredient, glycol (ethylene or propene) for both.
In the motor, on the "fresh" water side glycol is used to form the coolant. Change every 5 year or so (sometimes more often).
On the raw water side, I run through glycol, usually diluted ~50/50 and blow out all residuals with letting the mtor run until dry. This glycol serves two purposes: no freeze in the raw water system, and then the glycol does some rust preventing as well.

Glycol is of course toxic, very much. All freshwater systems are just emptied. totally. No need for antifreeze (and certainly not glycol). Seacocks left open, but they must be completely emptied - there is s pocket which should be empty.

Never put any glycol in the bilge, as it is not a very nice compound. Bilge should be dry - seldom any problem for me.

The antifreeze that some are using, what is that? Methanol? (you are not using ethanol for that, are you? Or, is that why you look forward to spring?)

Interesting with the differences.

/J[/QUOTE]
 
#16 · (Edited)
I suggest reading the manual for each system. Internet advice can be just plain wrong or at least incomplete. There is also a lot of GREAT advise. I love it. But you should always read the manual first because we don't always know about your specific bit of equipment, only our experience.

Example: pouring AF in the bowl of the head only winterizes the discharge half of the system. The intake side will still have plain water. The owners manual will suggest that you either drain properly (follow the instructions) or fill with glycol from the intake side. And don't use PG (pink stuff) if you have neoprene joker valves (Jabsco and some others)--it will ruin them. PG will also ruin many clear strainers.

Example: Ethanol is bad on nitrile impellors (stiffen and break vanes). Really, only EG makes sense in engines for this reason. For the rest of your systems, check materials vs. chemicals.

Sail Delmarva: Easier Winterizing

Winterizing: ethylene glycol vs. propylene glycol - Inside Practical Sailor Blog Article

Propylene glycol vs. ethylene glycol. Wow.
 
#17 · (Edited)
For the engine:



Some take away points that I read in this thread:

#1 Water heaters get drained and then by-passed. There is zero reason to AF a water heater. Just pull the domestic cold/inlet hose and the hot/out hose and physically connect them together. If your water heater is not plumbed for this, do it, the savings in AF will pay for it. Here's why you don't AF a water heater. DILUTION!!!


#2 You could not pay me to put AF into my tanks. I drain water tanks, disconnect the hoses and either suck or blow them out with a wet vac. I then suck AF into only the pipes after by-passing the water heater.

#3 1 gallon of AF into a diesel engine can be catastrophic due to dilution. I measure and test the freeze points on each boat I winterize, with a refractometer, so that the next winter I know exactly how much it needs. The minimum on any boat I winterize is three gallons to match the strength it went in at. This AF should never be diluted. My own boat takes a full five gallons.

DO NOT cheap out on AF. I have a Universal M-25 HX sitting in my shop for scrap that the owner sucked only two gallons into. He froze and destroyed his HX by not having the right freeze/burst points due to dilution.. I have also see Sea Frost HX's split and this can get very, very expensive....

I have seen numerous incorrectly winterized raw water cooled engines spit freeze plugs. This usually requires removal of the engine to fix cha-ching $$$$$$$$......

Here is what came out of the M-25 HX in the spring! Remember this was a full two gallons into an M-25 yet it had a freeze point of 25F !!!!!:



Antifreeze is cheap engines and heat exchangers are not......
 
#19 ·
So basically if you go through the motions in any sort of way weather or not one just drains or uses antifreeze as a flush or to fill the lines, they all work. Seacocks open or closed, both work. I should have known when the first two replies were opposites of each other.
 
#21 ·
We had a canvas cover made for our current boat, and I used cheap tarps for a previous one. Have never shrink wrapped, but many do. Local conditions will dictate how covered you need to be. For us up here, it's all about the snow load.

Definitely remove all sails, including anything on the furler. Does them no good sitting there over winter, and adds a lot of unnecessary windage on the forestay.
 
#23 ·
Yes take you sail home with you. My furler was stored with my mast when I bought the boat this year. PO says he always wrapped the mast but last year he did not. Just took off all the line and brought it home with him. I have heard good and bad things about shrink wrapping but my boat has been stored that way and I will probably do it again. Is shrink wrapping easy enough to do or should I pay the $250 to have it done?
 
#26 ·
I gotta say, I've been studying up on winterization and have come to the conclusion that for a newbie like me paying the marina to do this would be the risk-averse choice. Seems like there's a lot of places and time for a DIY to go wrong, at least until I'm more experienced with maintanance work.
 
#27 ·
Well, it's not risk-free, but might be the easiest solution. That said, it's really not very difficult to winterize a boat. The objective, no matter how you do it, is to get all the water out of the various systems. Whether you do it via draining, blowing compressed air, or replacing water with coolant/anti-freeze, the objective is the same.
 
#29 ·
My first year of boat ownership, I paid a marine mechanic to winterize and commission the engine in the spring. My plan was to watch carefully so I could do it the next year. The problem was that he weighed 300 pounds and he blocked the entire engine compartment from my view! When we launched, I immediately noticed (actually it was pointed out to me) that the engine was not pumping water through the engine. turns out he had been in such a hurry that he didn't put the belt on the pulley to drive the impeller. I resolved to do it myself from that point on and am glad I did. It really helped me get familiar with the engine and what parts are where. While it may sound a bit intimidating, it really isn't that hard and doing it yourself will save you money which you can spend on something else for the boat (or part of something else...)
 
#30 · (Edited)
If you trust someone else to do this critical job, ok but I've seen too many screw-ups done by the paid help. (I also change my own car oil for the same reason.) Get a 5 gallon bucket filled with regular Prestone or similar -50 solution, disconnect the hose from the seacock, put it in the bucket and run until the antifreeze comes out of the exhaust. Then disconnect the exhaust hose at the muffler and let the water drain from the muffler. Pour some anti freeze directly in the muffler to make sure there's no dilution from leftover seawater. Stuff a rag in the exhaust hose on the engine side. That will keep air from rusting the valves. If you can't get to the muffler, make sure to stuff a rag in the exhaust at the transom. Lube the seacock(s) up and close them. The fresh water side should be ok as is if you have adequate antifreeze in it already.

I use the pink plumber's stuff in my FW lines. I pump it in with the water pump by disconnecting the tank side, bypassing the water heater and running until pink is coming out all the faucets, etc. This only takes around a gallon and you can collect it at the faucets. The point is to get it in the lines. I then disconnect/drain all the components: pump, accumulator tank. Putting antifreeze in my water heater is not necessary (but I don't know about others which may retain water even after pulling the hose off). The exchanger side of the water heater can be left on because it's part of the FW engine circuit. Blowing lines out is sometimes not effective because it takes only a couple of tablespoons of residual water to run back and collect at a low point and freeze/crack. I've had this happen.
 
#31 ·
I spend about $100 on antifreeze each year. It fills a shopping cart a WalMart.

Time-wise, getting the water heater up to the right non-dilution takes the most time. I just don't like messing with the fittings. Maybe I ought to just disconnect the lower one and see how it goes this year.

I would have to put a big piece of tape over the water heater's circuit breaker, that says "water heater drained". Otherwise I'd need to buy a new heating element, right? (And that's more messing around with fittings.)

Regards,
Brad
 
#32 ·
Brad,

Part of my winterizing of water heaters includes disconnecting the element or the wire behind the breaker, which ever is easier.

This is easy stuff.

*Drain the tank.

*Disconnect cold inlet and hot outlet

* Connect them together.

*Disconnect the element electrically so no mistakes can be made.

Done water heater by-passed....

 
#35 ·
I think there is a lot of good advise here. I have been on the service side of things for the last 15 years, winterizing no less than 12 boats a year, some with single engine, some twin, some with generators.

I flush each and every one on land with a fresh water hose feed and run the engines to get up to temp. Then change oils/filters and then run them again with anti freeze. Prior to that on some (the bigger ones) I drain the exhaust lifter so I don't have to run as much antifreeze through (cat c-12 took 25 gallons to get good pink due to water in exhaust system)

Remove and protect everything you can from the outside of the boat, winter doesn't hurt it as much as UV. Sails provide windage which could help knock the boat over in a blow. Halyards cost more money to replace than messenger line, and it would double their cover life by being in the sun only half of the year.

Life rings, dodgers and the like will last longer if they are only in the weather half of the time too.

Shrinkwrap is your choice in my opinion, if you are near a busy road, then cover the boat, lots of road dust and tire dust will end up on your boat and get into everything. I have also only wrapped the boat to the toe rail to keep it from chaffing on the awlgrip.
 
#37 ·
Hello,

If the engine has a coolant tank with a cap like on a car then it it fresh water cooled. I believe the Beta 20 is fresh water cooled. So you don't need to remove the thermostat to winterize the, just remove the raw water intake hose to the water pump (follow the hose from the seacock to the engine) and use some clear plastic tubing from a gallon jub of marine / rv antifreeze (not coolant). Run the engine until you see the pink antifreeze being pushed out of the exhaust.

You can blow out the bilge and other lines but I do like to run the antifreeze through them so I KNOW there is no water in the lines. I do use an air tank to blow out the domestic water lines because it takes too long to get the antifreeze smell out of them. I use antifreeze for engine raw water, head and holding tank, and bilge pump lines.

Barry
 
#38 ·
I have the 6 gallon raritan hot water heater on the boat and it's not easy draining that tank since there is a check valve on the inlet. I'm hesitate about messing with that fitting so instead I hand pump air into the system to get as much water out of the heater as possible before pumping in the antifreeze. If I was in a colder climate I would have to take more effort. Maybe there is an easier way to defeat that check valve?

One other comment is that I do add a gallon of AF to each of the 60 gallon water tanks after they are drained. My thought is that the AF may defeat slime from growing in the tanks and lines during any possible warm winter days.
 
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