sailboat and ferry collide! - Page 7 - SailNet Community
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post #61 of 64 Old 11-16-2013
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Re: sailboat and ferry collide!

Haven't read all the posts but did the report. Some observations:
The USCG investigation is not out and that will address culpability and the Capt/Mate licenses.
After the ferry turned into the channel they had 1,000 yd of clear visibility to the Fischer 27 and another boat under sail.
The Capt was well aware of what boats were out there and what they were doing.
The ferry choose to thread the needle between the sailboats at 18 kts.
There was no bridge to bridge with the boat stating that intention.
The Capt. gave a vague order to the helmsman without watching how that would be carried out.
The investigation report has sections redacted how is that justified?
Captains have to be totally responsible for the ship:
“Responsibility is a unique concept... You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you... If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion, or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible.”


― Hyman G. Rickover

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Puget Sound
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post #62 of 64 Old 11-18-2013
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Re: sailboat and ferry collide!

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Originally Posted by capta View Post
Whatever happens on the flight deck of an aircraft moving at between 3 and 500 knots has very little similarity to the bridge of a surface vessel at 20 knots, even if the approach speed of two vessels is near 50 knots. It's apples and oranges. Cabin crews on aircraft are not usually comprised of 15 or more very hard men capable of surviving a night ashore on the waterfront of a seaport. I am certainly glad my career is at an end, because there is absolutely nothing that would get me to work with a bridge management team. I find it mildly entertaining that traditional systems and traditional methods are no longer good enough, though they have worked fairly well for 10 centuries or so. Add a couple of dozen electronic "aids to navigation" on the bridge and the captain (traditionally, the "master") is no longer capable of doing the job he did when all he had was a compass, timepiece and a sextant. I suppose they'll outlaw flogging, next. But perhaps the reason for all this balderdash is because the captains of today are men who have learned their trade at school, rather than a lifetime of experience at sea. They advance because they can pass a test, not by merit and proven accomplishment. So there really isn't one person on the bridge actually knowledgeable and experienced enough to make decisions alone!
Just like the situation that this thread is about, you advocate education, while I would send them ashore forever. The mate in the situation we are discussing turned TOWARD a vessel she was looking at; that is not an error, that is just plain stupidity, certainly a good reason, in my book, to insure she never gets the opportunity to endanger people's lives again. The captain's lack of "situational awareness" again a school term, I'm sure, because I've never heard the term on the bridge of any commercial vessel, wasn't paying attention with an inexperienced person on the helm in a narrow channel close to a port. As the kids say today, isn't that a classic FAIL? Only by pure luck did nobody die and I can't for the life of me understand why you would want to give her the opportunity to actually kill someone, next time she loses "situational awareness"?
I guess it all boils down to you're being a nice guy and thinking these girls deserve a second chance, and my being an ass*ole (admittedly) and believing that being on that bridge was their chance to do it right.
Jeeez Capta, Don't you know there's an excuse for everything now. In school, kids are taught they are simply wonderful no matter how bad they are at something. We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by telling them they have done poorly, do we? They'll get it right next time:-)

Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
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post #63 of 64 Old 11-19-2013
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Re: sailboat and ferry collide!

Rgs...
What I was trying to say is that COLREGs requires evasive action by all parties when collision is imminent. If the ferry could maneuver and did not the sailor should have been aware of the situation and taken action if only for his own good. How close would you let a fast moving vessel get to you before deciding to get out of dodge? If you are disabled then you need to display the proper signs. If you are slow moving then you need a larger danger zone.
John
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post #64 of 64 Old 11-20-2013
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Re: sailboat and ferry collide!

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Originally Posted by ccriders View Post
Rgs...
What I was trying to say is that COLREGs requires evasive action by all parties when collision is imminent. If the ferry could maneuver and did not the sailor should have been aware of the situation and taken action if only for his own good. How close would you let a fast moving vessel get to you before deciding to get out of dodge? If you are disabled then you need to display the proper signs. If you are slow moving then you need a larger danger zone.
John
They do and you are right.
In this case the Elderly Gent. Was inside the wheel house of his boat.
Yes he should have looked behind. especially in a narrow channel frequented by ferries. For whatever reason he was preoccupied and looking ahead.
The collision happened only about 5 minutes after the ferry left the dock.
I have certainly had something sneak up behind me in my open cockpit

He was vilified as a fool early on. Not quite fair. He is not innocent but it is understandable and a reminder for us all.
Remember to shoulder check, and check your mirrors.
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