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  #31  
Old 09-27-2013
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Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Zealand.

That lots of folks are using Dockwise is not the be slagged off at but complimented! Those who are time poor to cross the Atlantic, or the time of year is wrong, or their experience level is not high enough are shoving their boats on a ship! GREAT!! thats a good thing, not a bad thing.

Newer people are smarter, more efficient and more knowledgeable. Plus they have more and better information at the touch of a few buttons.
Mark,
We've come full circle back to that technology piece & you left out the most important part. The people that are doing this have $$$$. There's nothing wrong w/ having money but the average Joe will never put his or her boat on a ship. At least no one I know
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Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

Have looked into the float on float off services. Huge money and tied into their schedule. Other then wear on the boat better and cheaper to hire skilled crew and get experience/ skills for yourself in the process. Thought the idea of having a sailboat was to sail the d- mn thing. Increasingly limitation is insurance.
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  #33  
Old 09-28-2013
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Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

I think sailing clubs and shared ownership are going to become more popular, not just because of the economic times, but because they are good ideas that solve real problems, - problems that aren't new.

Let's be realistic, you either need a lot of money or be pretty good with your hands and have some spare time to maintain a boat. And this doesn't just apply to sailboats. I'm talking about any boat. Powerboat clubs have also gotten popular.

With a car you can take it to any number of places, or even have it towed relatively cheaply if it needs work. With a boat your options are much more limited and much more expensive.

Boating clubs have become popular with women (and men) who have no interest in learning how to fix engines. They just want a working boat available whenever they feel like hitting the water. In the U.S. (and probably other places) we've grown up with the idea that ownership is where it's at. But often times we become slaves to our property and possessions.

Our sailing club is hard to get in. It's strictly a web based signup and there are about 4 opportunities each year. There are always far more applicants than open spots. Given that, there is some hope that sailing might see an uptick in popularity if it's possible to remove some of the barriers that keep people away from it.

Last edited by unimacs; 09-28-2013 at 01:42 AM.
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  #34  
Old 09-28-2013
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Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by misfits View Post
the average Joe will never put his or her boat on a ship. At least no one I know
In general I agree, but not in all cases.
Heres an example... A couple is doing their circumnavigation and get to Asia and wish to do the Med. Because of Somalia they cant get there by the Red Sea. So they must go via South Africa. That puts on about 8 months to the trip and they get to Turkey after a very long series of passages and arrive in time to stop cruising for winter! So they have another 6 months additional expense in a marina.

Instead of that 1 year they can pay out a years cruising budget and ship from Thailand to Turkey. They are able to stay longer in cheap Asia and and be there in Turkey a month later at the very beginning of the season. They are a year ahead and no harsh sailing! (nor pirates!)

OK so thats not everyone's budget, its US$35,000 to ship a Maramu 54 footer Thailand to Marmaris - we've seen the costs from Sea Be's spread sheet.
But that is in the realm of many folks cruising budget - at a pinch - when you consider that year saved.



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Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 09-28-2013 at 06:40 AM.
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Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
And I'll sound like a broken record to say how incorrect the old timers memories are.

The cruising folk of yesteryear, say the 1960s and 70's who circumnavigated have a HUGE death rate per captia compared with today.

They died like flies out there.
I'd say that's a bit of an exaggeration :-) It would be nice to see some numbers to support such an assertion, but I realize any meaningful statistics are likely impossible to obtain...

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
That lots of folks are using Dockwise is not the be slagged off at but complimented! Those who are time poor to cross the Atlantic, or the time of year is wrong, or their experience level is not high enough are shoving their boats on a ship! GREAT!! thats a good thing, not a bad thing.
Not sure where you get the impression II was "slagging off" the use of Dockwise, I was simply suggesting such a service will become increasingly popular among the type of sailor that can afford it, or who might still be working in order to afford it, or may simply be more interested in the destination, as opposed to the journey... I helped friends load their boat onto a Dockwise ship in Lauderdale a few years ago, when they had to get their boat back to the West coast on short notice due to a family health issue... A very impressive operation, and one that worked out very well for them...

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Newer people are smarter, more efficient and more knowledgeable. Plus they have more and better information at the touch of a few buttons.
On that bolded part, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree :-) And a guy like Don Street - far more knowledgeable than I - would disagree with you, as well...

Last edited by JonEisberg; 09-28-2013 at 07:08 AM.
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Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

People's household income has been declining for a long time. You have to cut out something and expensive recreational items has to be high on the list for most people.
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Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by unimacs View Post
Just curious. Any sense for how many of them pursued learning how to sail?
Only the two whose dad already owns a boat (he's the one who got me back into sailing!) :-) so I guess they were kind of a gimmee anyhow.

But I have a couple (adult) friends who have gotten their boating license, and a number of students who have expressed interest in doing that as a first stage.

A couple of the students who I sailed with the most are here in Israel with me for the year, so hopefully we'll get some more time on the water together.

My own sailing bug was dormant for a long time, from young teenage-hood till I came to Toronto married with a family at age 27, and I didn't get my own boat till 30. A lot of 20-year-olds aren't in a geographical or financial place where a boat is something they can do, but I hope there is value in planting the seeds, even if they take a while to sprout.
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Old 09-30-2013
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Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

Well it seems to me there are a few common themes:

1) Sailing is declining amongst the younger generations;
2) The cost to be a sole-owner of a sailboat is becoming prohibitively expensive;
3) There appears to be support, albeit not unanamous, for shared-use and/or multiple ownership/participation; and
4) It appears there is general agreement sailing will be for the very rich.

Now the question is: What can Sailboat Dealers, Manufacturers, and the sailing community do about it? Do sailboat manufacturers/dealers want to do anything about it?
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Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

When I was a kid back in the polyester clad pre-cambrian period of the late 70s, i was the only kid in my elementary school who owned a sailboat. In high school in the big-hair days of the early 80s, i was the only kid with a sailboat. Only a couple of other kids had parents who owned boats and they were the parents who had the income (doctors, lawyers) to afford them, or the time (teachers, professors, ) to enjoy them.

Flash forward three decades, and anecdotally I see as many kids sailing, or at least, the sailing camps have the same size enrolment now as they did in the 70s... and i see them having a bigger interest in keelboats because good old boats are more attainable now then they have ever been. One can work for a summer and have enough to buy a decent old small boat.

but not as many of their parents are sailing.

Moreover, these kids have role models that a previous generation didn't have, in the deckers and watsons and sunderlands who put down their phones and went sailing. It feels like there is a spirit of "can-do" in sailing today that is more prevalent than 20 years ago.
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Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

Interesting point. You are oobserving same amount of kids today as you saw when you were young. That means as a percentage of the population (and certainly the young populations) there is less particpation than in the 70s.

Changing tacks---Has anyone read the book I mentioned in my origina post?

If so--what do you think of it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
When I was a kid back in the polyester clad pre-cambrian period of the late 70s, i was the only kid in my elementary school who owned a sailboat. In high school in the big-hair days of the early 80s, i was the only kid with a sailboat. Only a couple of other kids had parents who owned boats and they were the parents who had the income (doctors, lawyers) to afford them, or the time (teachers, professors, ) to enjoy them.

Flash forward three decades, and anecdotally I see as many kids sailing, or at least, the sailing camps have the same size enrolment now as they did in the 70s... and i see them having a bigger interest in keelboats because good old boats are more attainable now then they have ever been. One can work for a summer and have enough to buy a decent old small boat.

but not as many of their parents are sailing.

Moreover, these kids have role models that a previous generation didn't have, in the deckers and watsons and sunderlands who put down their phones and went sailing. It feels like there is a spirit of "can-do" in sailing today that is more prevalent than 20 years ago.
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