The Future of Boat Ownership - Page 5 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree23Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 09-30-2013
Yamsailor's Avatar
Yamsailor
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 811
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Yamsailor is on a distinguished road
Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

Interesting point. You are observing the same amount of kids today as you saw when you were young. That means as a percentage of the population (and certainly the young populations) there is less participation per capita than in the 70s.

Changing tacks---Has anyone read the book I mentioned in my origina post?

If so--what do you think of it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
When I was a kid back in the polyester clad pre-cambrian period of the late 70s, i was the only kid in my elementary school who owned a sailboat. In high school in the big-hair days of the early 80s, i was the only kid with a sailboat. Only a couple of other kids had parents who owned boats and they were the parents who had the income (doctors, lawyers) to afford them, or the time (teachers, professors, ) to enjoy them.

Flash forward three decades, and anecdotally I see as many kids sailing, or at least, the sailing camps have the same size enrolment now as they did in the 70s... and i see them having a bigger interest in keelboats because good old boats are more attainable now then they have ever been. One can work for a summer and have enough to buy a decent old small boat.

but not as many of their parents are sailing.

Moreover, these kids have role models that a previous generation didn't have, in the deckers and watsons and sunderlands who put down their phones and went sailing. It feels like there is a spirit of "can-do" in sailing today that is more prevalent than 20 years ago.
__________________
There isn't a device on this world that can measure the indifference I have for that statement.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #42  
Old 09-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 157
Thanks: 3
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 1
unimacs is on a distinguished road
Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

I haven't read that book nor have a read another book specifically about the decline of sailing.

The latter is called "Saving Sailing" by Nick Hayes. Like I said, I've only seen excerpts. According to him, there are young people sailing but they tend to drop out of the sport by the time they reach 25.

One of his theories is that sailing is no longer a family activity. Kids might go to a sailing camp or take lessons but their parents aren't involved.

My own sailing history kind of follows that pattern but I never took lessons or went to camp. I got into sailing because of my father but he died when I was very young. My interest in sailing continued largely due to my older brother but by the time I graduated from college I almost never went sailing and got into windsurfing instead. My brother moved to Hawaii and also became a windsurfer.

Once I had kids I rarely even went windsurfing. It was only about a year ago that I realized I hadn't passed my love of sailing on to my kids and have started to get back into it. Might be too late to get my 13 year old very interested. There are sailing programs for kids nearby but I didn't know about them until recently and my kids are already into other stuff that takes up a lot of their time.

I guess the larger question is "So what?". Even in the late 70's or early 80's when I spent a lot of time sailing, virtually none of my peers did. It pains me to think there might not be any more sailors in my family but there never really were until my father anyway. If my kids find other activities that are fulfilling, easier on their budgets and fit within their lives better, that's really what matters in the end.

What I didn't realize until I started to look into it is that there was a sailing boom in the 60's and 70's.

Last edited by unimacs; 09-30-2013 at 05:49 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #43  
Old 09-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,229
Thanks: 4
Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Brent Swain is on a distinguished road
Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

I have owned my own home, debt free, since my early 20s. Never had a bank loan in my life. This would not be possible, had my home been anything but a boat. I am meeting more and more youth who are finally cluing into the same reality. Not owning a boat is not an option, for me or them.
__________________
Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #44  
Old 09-30-2013
bljones's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,069
Thanks: 31
Thanked 68 Times in 61 Posts
Rep Power: 7
bljones has a spectacular aura about bljones has a spectacular aura about
Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamsailor View Post
Interesting point. You are observing the same amount of kids today as you saw when you were young. That means as a percentage of the population (and certainly the young populations) there is less participation per capita than in the 70s.


If so--what do you think of it?
which would make perfect sense, if not for the fact that in this area the sub 20 year old demographic is smaller than it was 30-40 years ago. public school and high school enrolment is lower than 40 years ago, in this area.

I don't disagree that there are fewer 20-somethings sailing than in the 60s and 70s...but I think we may be seeing an interest rekindled in those under 18, whether by the teen world-circlers, or Jack Sparrow making sailboats cool, or whatever...

I AM seeing a definite increase locally in the number of low-buck (under $10K) small cruisers (sub-30') on the water, and the demographic is largely mid-late 40s finally sailing because they can finally afford a boat without sacrifice...it was finally attainable.

We have seen it here- a definite increase in the number of, erm, "Mature Newbies," for lack of a better term.

Maybe the future of sailing is really the past of sailing- the wide selection of solid older designs available at knock-down prices is likely doing more to revitalize the sport than Larry Ellison's NASCARization of the AC.
__________________
It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #45  
Old 10-01-2013
Sal Paradise's Avatar
Captain Obvious
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 638
Thanks: 13
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Sal Paradise is on a distinguished road
Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

Yam
My grandparents, although very successful people both financially and socially, never owned a house. They were afraid to spend their savings having lived through the great depression and they lived in Brooklyn - near the water. They did spend money on boats and boatyards however and with no lawn to mow and no roof to patch they were free to take all of us grandkids sailing.

As an architect I try and study housing trends. The concept that the suburbs would stagnate while core areas would revive has been around for quite a while now. I myself built a house on an infill lot in a village. Its adjacent to a metro North main line into NYC, and on the river. And certainly the great recession has greatly affected the current generation of young adults spending habits and plans. I do think it remains to be seen from a market perspective just how this manifests itself. I think you can argue that the NYC, Boston, DC area will attract and retain young educated people and that may be the geographic core while places like Detroit, Phoenix and the midwest slowly die off.

Perhaps this generation will echo their great grandparents. With less real estate to take care of they will be open to owning a boat. Or maybe they will be so crippled by debt and unemployment that they see boat ownership as unrealistic. I think the answer to which of those futures is ahead lies in political and policy decision in Washington D.C.

Without getting overtly political, the policies of the U.S. during the time of my grandparents generation were certainly much different than today's. Tax rates were much higher, as was employment and growth. So the incentive to spend was there for investors and employees enjoyed the freedom to quit their job and pick up a better paying job anytime. Contrast that to today - lower tax rates, austerity,gov. shut down, government layoff, sequester, insecurity and people clinging to any job to survive. I don't see growth policy like my grandparents generation saw. The specter of mass unemployment or underemployment will loom large over this generation for decades to come. The question of housing policy and economic policy seemed to be stymied by radical groups such as the Koch Bros Tea Party.
Yamsailor likes this.
__________________
Warning: All comments by this poster are likey to be tongue in cheek and should be read as such unless noted otherwise.

Last edited by Sal Paradise; 10-01-2013 at 06:11 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #46  
Old 10-01-2013
Yamsailor's Avatar
Yamsailor
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 811
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Yamsailor is on a distinguished road
Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

Sal,

You bring up some very good points and a new perspective worth exploring.

I hope you are right!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
Yam
My grandparents, although very successful people both financially and socially, never owned a house. They were afraid to spend their savings having lived through the great depression and they lived in Brooklyn - near the water. They did spend money on boats and boatyards however and with no lawn to mow and no roof to patch they were free to take all of us grandkids sailing.

As an architect I try and study housing trends. The concept that the suburbs would stagnate while core areas would revive has been around for quite a while now. I myself built a house on an infill lot in a village. Its adjacent to a metro North main line into NYC, and on the river. And certainly the great recession has greatly affected the current generation of young adults spending habits and plans. I do think it remains to be seen from a market perspective just how this manifests itself. I think you can argue that the NYC, Boston, DC area will attract and retain young educated people and that may be the geographic core while places like Detroit, Phoenix and the midwest slowly die off.

Perhaps this generation will echo their great grandparents. With less real estate to take care of they will be open to owning a boat. Or maybe they will be so crippled by debt and unemployment that they see boat ownership as unrealistic. I think the answer to which of those futures is ahead lies in political and policy decision in Washington D.C.

Without getting overtly political, the policies of the U.S. during the time of my grandparents generation were certainly much different than today's. Tax rates were much higher, as was employment and growth. So the incentive to spend was there for investors and employees enjoyed the freedom to quit their job and pick up a better paying job anytime. Contrast that to today - lower tax rates, austerity,gov. shut down, government layoff, sequester, insecurity and people clinging to any job to survive. I don't see growth policy like my grandparents generation saw. The specter of mass unemployment or underemployment will loom large over this generation for decades to come. The question of housing policy and economic policy seemed to be stymied by radical groups such as the Koch Bros Tea Party.
__________________
There isn't a device on this world that can measure the indifference I have for that statement.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #47  
Old 10-01-2013
Group9's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,123
Thanks: 13
Thanked 45 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Group9 is on a distinguished road
Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
Yam
My grandparents, although very successful people both financially and socially, never owned a house. They were afraid to spend their savings having lived through the great depression and they lived in Brooklyn - near the water. They did spend money on boats and boatyards however and with no lawn to mow and no roof to patch they were free to take all of us grandkids sailing.

As an architect I try and study housing trends. The concept that the suburbs would stagnate while core areas would revive has been around for quite a while now. I myself built a house on an infill lot in a village. Its adjacent to a metro North main line into NYC, and on the river. And certainly the great recession has greatly affected the current generation of young adults spending habits and plans. I do think it remains to be seen from a market perspective just how this manifests itself. I think you can argue that the NYC, Boston, DC area will attract and retain young educated people and that may be the geographic core while places like Detroit, Phoenix and the midwest slowly die off.

Perhaps this generation will echo their great grandparents. With less real estate to take care of they will be open to owning a boat. Or maybe they will be so crippled by debt and unemployment that they see boat ownership as unrealistic. I think the answer to which of those futures is ahead lies in political and policy decision in Washington D.C.

Without getting overtly political, the policies of the U.S. during the time of my grandparents generation were certainly much different than today's. Tax rates were much higher, as was employment and growth. So the incentive to spend was there for investors and employees enjoyed the freedom to quit their job and pick up a better paying job anytime. Contrast that to today - lower tax rates, austerity,gov. shut down, government layoff, sequester, insecurity and people clinging to any job to survive. I don't see growth policy like my grandparents generation saw. The specter of mass unemployment or underemployment will loom large over this generation for decades to come. The question of housing policy and economic policy seemed to be stymied by radical groups such as the Koch Bros Tea Party.
Not to get political? Fail!

So government sucking up all of the extra income in taxes and redistributing it will save us?

And, you think normal tax payers only think that is crazy because the Koch brothers tell us to think that?

What if we think for ourselves and think Keynesian economics are BS?

You really think the 20 somethings of today are going to thank us for this huge debt we have run up for them to pay?

I think we're lucky they haven't really thought about it too much, yet.
__________________
On the northern Gulf of Mexico.


"Best thing to do is get her out on the ocean. If anything's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there." Captain Ron Rico

Last edited by Group9; 10-01-2013 at 12:57 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #48  
Old 10-01-2013
Sal Paradise's Avatar
Captain Obvious
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 638
Thanks: 13
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Sal Paradise is on a distinguished road
Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
Not to get political? Fail!

So government sucking up all of the extra income in taxes and redistributing it will save us?

And, you think normal tax payers only think that is crazy because the Koch brothers tell us to think that?

What if we think for ourselves and think Keynesian economics are BS?
Ahhh, hello teaparty..dWhat if you did think for yourself? I don't know. If the Kochs tell you something, and you believe it, does it matter if it's is cause and effect? The result is the same. You guys shut NOAA down! Good job.


History tells us that some things were different during the great depression and what they did. You deny that it worked, you are fooling yourself. History tells us what we did prior to the great recession. You deny that it failed, you fool yourself. Fool me twice.....

If history won't serve your argument,there is always rage, diversion and the anonymous example of a FOAF who became a millionaire waterproofing basements...
__________________
Warning: All comments by this poster are likey to be tongue in cheek and should be read as such unless noted otherwise.

Last edited by Sal Paradise; 10-01-2013 at 05:46 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #49  
Old 10-01-2013
Yamsailor's Avatar
Yamsailor
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 811
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Yamsailor is on a distinguished road
Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

OK Guys,

I really don't want this discussion to be political. I appreciate what is going on especially since I am one of the non-essential employees who is currently on furlough. Sailing for me is a respite from all this BS so, let's get back to the original topic I brought up---The Future of Sailing with the a premise that individual sailing participation has absolutely nothing to do with Government Budget Issues. If we can't assume that I will ask one of the Administrators to remove this post.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
Ahhh, hello teaparty..dWhat if you did think for yourself? I don't know. If the Kochs tell you something, and you believe it, does it matter if it's is cause and effect? The result is the same. You guys shut NOAA down! Good job.


History tells us that some things were different during the great depression and what they did. You deny that it worked, you are fooling yourself. History tells us what we did prior to the great recession. You deny that it failed, you fool yourself. Fool me twice.....

If history won't serve your argument,there is always rage, diversion and the anonymous example of a FOAF who became a millionaire waterproofing basements...
ChristinaM likes this.
__________________
There isn't a device on this world that can measure the indifference I have for that statement.

Last edited by Yamsailor; 10-01-2013 at 05:58 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #50  
Old 10-01-2013
Sal Paradise's Avatar
Captain Obvious
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 638
Thanks: 13
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Sal Paradise is on a distinguished road
Re: The Future of Boat Ownership

Sorry yam

Good luck with your premise. My this place be your sailing respite. I'll stay off it.
__________________
Warning: All comments by this poster are likey to be tongue in cheek and should be read as such unless noted otherwise.

Last edited by Sal Paradise; 10-01-2013 at 07:08 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
boat ownership on the horizon elliotts Introduce Yourself 2 09-18-2013 04:55 PM
Just took ownership of our 2nd boat MtHopeBay General Discussion (sailing related) 6 03-22-2011 09:32 AM
Boat ownership through charter db27513 General Discussion (sailing related) 17 08-17-2010 04:09 PM
Help me find my future boat! Leland Boat Review and Purchase Forum 9 06-03-2008 11:59 AM
Boat Co-ownership ursa Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 01-12-2001 03:57 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:47 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012