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The Future of Boat Ownership

7K views 53 replies 23 participants last post by  zedboy 
#1 ·
I just read “The End of the Suburbs. Where the American Dream is Moving” by Leigh Gallagher, Assistant Managing Editor of Fortune Magazine.

The book is not about the end of the suburbs but the shifting pattern in housing. It concentrates on a lot of shifting trends in the US Home Real Estate market. A significant portion of the book discusses the Millenial Generation–their future economic opportunity, buying trends, their outlook on life. In short it is the description of this generations values and what guides their purchasing decisions. The millenial generation is a full 33% larger than the baby boom generation, yet at the sme time their ability to emjoy this sport is diminishing.

This books talks about the Millenial generation as not wanting to purchase cars, large homes, and other items that have been the backbone of the “American Dream” since the end of WW II. There is data to back this up and it is adjusted for the economic conditions we all have been experiencing. If this generation is not interested in owning large homes, and less interested in sharing cars, how is the boating industry going to get this genetration to be boat owners? In my opinion, this generation will share boats the way they want to share cars. I think the one-owner boat model is dieing for the majority of the boat-owning public.


I fear the participation in sailing is going to decrease over time.
 
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#2 ·
The sport of sailing is like any other individual sport and I think they're all on the decline somewhat... the ones that need capital investment. Fishing boats and ski boats are not going to go away. If there's a will, there's a way old Tom will have his fishing boat. The larger sailboats and smaller yachts that need to sit in the water... I think we'll start to see multiple ownership, leasing etc.. and possibly fewer "new" ones. I'm 56 now and just got the sailboat I've wanted all my life. What my kids generation is going to do... your guess is as good as mine.

Dave
 
#3 ·
I fear the participation in sailing is going to decrease over time.
I've said it before in these types of threads and I'll say it again, what is with the "fear" of the declining interest in sailing??? I just don't get it.

If you like sailing, and have a boat, and are out there doing it, as I am, then I just don't see why anyone cares what anyone else cares about.

In fact, if the waters in which I sail become less crowded over time, great!

I don't need other people to enjoy sailing for me to enjoy sailing.
 
#7 · (Edited)
For many people sailing is a mix of both a solo and a social activity. The lake I grew up on had an active "Yacht" club which held weekly races of multiple dinghy classes along with an annual invitational.

In spite of a having much more affluent local population today and being one of the largest lakes in the metro region there is no longer any regular racing on the lake. The Yacht Club still exists as far as I know but has a declining and aging membership.

This means that for the people on the area there are fewer opportunities to race or even share their love of sailing with one another. Not only that but sailboat dealers are fewer and farther between. Parts (and boats) get more expensive because manufacturers deal in smaller volumes. Right now there is a glut of old boats on the market but this will change over time as fewer new boats are being made.

I don't think this is strictly tied to economics. There are lots of leisure activities that are not only cheaper but less time consuming and which can be enjoyed with little or no learning curve. Pretty much anybody can hop on a personal watercraft and be zipping across the water in a mater of minutes. Same with kayaks or paddleboards.

I belong to a local sailing club and what is astonishing to me is the high percentage of people in technical fields that are members. Just a guess, but I'd say for these people, learning and honing the somewhat arcane skill and language of sailing is part of the attraction.
 
#4 ·
I think you're probably right. I would also like to point out that millenials have a huge range of sports and activities available to them and are interested in doing lots of activites and not necessarily tying themselves down with boat ownership.

I'm 29 (Tail end of Gen X) and I see alot of the same trends in my own life. Although we could afford much larger, we bought a small house with a small mortgage. We only own one car and do not intend to get another. We paid off my student loans in 2 years of extreme frugal living.

I love sailing and I would love to own a boat, but we can't commit to spending all of our brief vacations and weekends on board. We have too many other things to do. So we obtained the ICC in order to bareboat and intend to do one charter trip per year.

In addition - None of our friends or family are even remotely into sailing. They look at us like we're crazy when we talk about it.
 
#5 ·
Much of this I think is also driven by access to waterfront. If we keep going down the path of putting a mooring field in every anchorage and closing off shore access due to waterfront private development, then the enjoyment of the waterways is greatly diminished.

If it gets to that, why even have a large cruising boat. I'd prefer a trailer sailor or small dinghy like a sunfish, laser, or even a 420. Perhaps that is the trend, as I was surprised by the big deal the Beneteau has made about their First 20 and 25 lately...trailerables
 
#6 ·
"This books talks about the Millenial generation as not wanting to purchase cars, large homes, and other items that have been the backbone of the “American Dream” since the end of WW II."

I am not entirely sure it is not wanting those things. I am 35, college educated and work two jobs to keep afloat financially. I am not in debt other than a car loan, but affording a house, having more than one car, or buying a boat are not financially viable options for me.
 
#8 ·
For what it's worth, I'm definitely one of those people. I'm a life-long renter at 40 and I don't own a car. With regards to home-ownership, I can't begin to understand why people want to mow lawns and deal with condo boards in their free time. Car ownership was also a drag - I ride my Vespa or take Metro or use ride-share programs (Zipcar) and taxis to get around.

If I could rent a sailboat I would do that. If there was a sailboat sharing program that worked nearly as good as Zipcar, I would be right on that. But I've looked and most of the options are pretty bad. Maybe there's a young sailor out there building the Zipcar of the sailing world, but I suspect there are very few locations with enough sailors to make it worth their while.
 
#11 ·
For what it's worth, I'm definitely one of those people. I'm a life-long renter at 40 and I don't own a car. With regards to home-ownership, I can't begin to understand why people want to mow lawns and deal with condo boards in their free time. Car ownership was also a drag - I ride my Vespa or take Metro or use ride-share programs (Zipcar) and taxis to get around.

If I could rent a sailboat I would do that. If there was a sailboat sharing program that worked nearly as good as Zipcar, I would be right on that. But I've looked and most of the options are pretty bad. Maybe there's a young sailor out there building the Zipcar of the sailing world, but I suspect there are very few locations with enough sailors to make it worth their while.
I am a member of a not-for-profit sailing club that is similar to the Zipcar model except you pay one price for the entire season and you get unlimited access to boats. Liberty Sailing Club - Philadelphia Pennsylvania
 
#9 ·
Interesting program on NPR recently that compared society today to the baby boomers & it kind of plays into this.

When I grew up everyone wanted that first car. We didn't have 3 TV's in the house & all the social sites that are internet dependent. If we wanted to get together with friends outside of school we needed wheels or peddled our 10 speeds around town.

Times have changed. You can sit in the comfort of your home & stay in touch with all 700 of your Facebook friends:)
 
#15 ·
Also, with fewer sailors, not only will the cost of boats, parts, and services tend to rise, but sailors will have less say in decisions made about water use and access to the water. Sailors will become more of a fringe group whose needs can be ignored with impunity. If yacht clubs, sailing clubs, boating co-ops, and community sailing associations disappear, sailors will have fewer options for launching, storing, and enjoying their boats and for learning from other sailors, recruiting crew, and generally having fun with other sailors.

I think the decline in sailing is shared not only by sports with high capital costs, but also by sports that require significant time and concentration commitments to reach a high enough level of skill to fully enjoy the sport.
 
#16 ·
Eh. It's already all happened, and it's fine - the cost of new boats is astronomical, and will remain so. 25-35 year olds can't afford them, no surprise; they're meant for the 55+ set with lots of disposable income. Will today's 25 year olds become those wealthy middle aged types? Dunno, but I suspect some will.

I'm 33, and I bought my first boat 3 years ago for $500 (ok, it was a real steal). Then I sold it for $1k, and this past summer borrowed a friend's unused boat (I paid for the slip). It's a municipal marina and very reasonable. We're not really the vacation type, so I considered the yearly slip cost my vacation investment. We did rent a cottage close to the boat last summer for a week for $500.

Lots of production boats from the 60s and 70s around for cheap. I got both my boats for near-free, but either would have gone for less than $2500 with the OB, and boats in that range hold on to their value. What is it, 7k C27's, 6k C30's, a zillion Grampians and Tanzers and Hinterhoellers and Northerns etc etc made all over North America. Someone is selling a cheap, fun boat close to where you are :)

Why waste money on a car or a house?
 
#17 ·
this is all related to the Boomers and their thirst for money and power. I am not characterizing all of them, but there are even a couple in my family who have sacrificed everything for a mountaintop house that nobody visits them at. (yes, I have an uncle who was extremely successful and owns a mountain top house in colorado)

Their kids (and their grandkids) have rebeled against this, as all kids do, and want nothing of the sort of "greed" they see in their parents. Couple this with an interconnectedness that has been unseen before in the world, and you get a lot of people with no urge to buy an expensive "Yacht" and get away.

Not only is the idea of owning a "yacht" so their parents, but many of the youngest generations cannot survive without being completely coupled to their electronic devices.

They do not understand it, they do not want to understand, and they are -not- going to understand it. My 12 year old neice will not go sailing with me because I will not let her bring her iPad (mostly because I bought it for her and do not want to see it get ruined)
 
#29 ·
but many of the youngest generations cannot survive without being completely coupled to their electronic devices.
That was the point NPR was trying to make when it compared the baby boomer generation regarding cars. Today there is no longer any need to leave the house if your connected. Many kids today don't want to leave the house.

I ask my kids friends, want to go fishing? They just look at me like I'm insane.
For the record, my kids don't go out anymore, they need to be connected..
I remember when being connected meant you knew the guy who had the good stash at his house.

Getting back to the topic of sailing/boat ownership, sugar coat it anyway you'd like but sailing/boat ownership is a rich mans sport. Sure many of us make adjustments/sacrifices in our budgets that allow us to enjoy this, but it's not cheap for the average working man or working family.

John E mentioned Sail Time. I personally don't see how that's cheap. You don't have a boat payment or any of the headaches associated with owning a boat but you don't have a boat either. For many of us, boat ownership, working on the boat, just hanging out on boat is what lifts our skirt.

The Boston Sail Time is just shy of 7K a season. That's a lot of cash to flush down the toilet to basically lease a boat for a season that you don't own...
 
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#19 ·
For the record, I took a lot of HS/university-aged students sailing over the past 3 years (I work with teens). They loved it. They are all addicted to their phones tho, I could see that being a problem for some. Maybe it's just an Ontario thing? Very watersport oriented here, though the kids immediately think jetski or searay when they hear I have a boat.
 
#22 ·
There will be a subset of folks who will want to cruise. Either before swallowing the anchor of career and family commitments or after vomiting up the anchor of said commitments. The eternal call of the sea and blue water is undeniable to some and always will be. Like our society will further stratify with little middle class, sailboats will evolve to cheap readily available small boats allowing trills and chills ( also honing skills) and durable seaboats allowing part or full time liveaboard. Even now with alternative energy sources, watermakers, Wifi boosters, ssb/modem set ups, sat phones one can cruise the world being dependent on the dirt folks only for consumables and spare parts. In an information society this allows one to simultaneously be "connected" but disconnect from dirt living.
 
#23 ·
Like most people my age (40) I have trouble not looking at my smartphone too often. However, this can't explain the decline in sailing - it's much easier to check Facebook from your boat than from your bike and people my age are all into bicycle racing, which is used to be a pretty marginal activity.
 
#24 ·
I would say the millenials are one of the hardest hit groups of the recession. There are fewer jobs and the ones on offer have low pay. As it is going they are becoming the lost generation. Even if it does get better they have already missed some years of income generation they will never get back. It's a travesty the political elites don't bother about.
 
#25 ·
something else to add.. what other sport uses fear to sell it's gear? Skiing, Motorcycling, Skateboarding, heck even flying do not use the sheer amount of fear that many people who sell our gear do.

You need the latest lifejacket - incase you fall overboard
You need the latest laser flares - so they can find you
you need the latest GPS - So you don't run aground
you need AIS - So the ships can see you
You need self deploying ladders - so you can get back aboard
you need self inflating liferafts - in case the boat sinks.


Fear fear fear. When my parents had our grampian, we sailed many a day and night along the shore. We had lifejackets, a radio, flares, and sighting compass.

That's it. We didn't sink, we didn't fall overboard and die, we did not get rundown by a freighter...

It's no wonder people think sailing is too dangerous
 
#27 ·
Miami Herald (may have a paywall) recently had an article about nascent boat sharing / P2p Boat Renting sprouting up.

Making waves in 'the sharing economy': Peer-to-peer boat rental companies arrive in South Florida - Business Monday - MiamiHerald.com

I do think this is the future...along with outfits like Sailtime. The cost of boats has just kept going up and up and up, with no end in sight. So like real estate where house sharing and airbnb came up, the future will have a significant amount of boatsharing.
 
#32 ·
Have looked into the float on float off services. Huge money and tied into their schedule. Other then wear on the boat better and cheaper to hire skilled crew and get experience/ skills for yourself in the process. Thought the idea of having a sailboat was to sail the d- mn thing. Increasingly limitation is insurance.
 
#33 · (Edited)
I think sailing clubs and shared ownership are going to become more popular, not just because of the economic times, but because they are good ideas that solve real problems, - problems that aren't new.

Let's be realistic, you either need a lot of money or be pretty good with your hands and have some spare time to maintain a boat. And this doesn't just apply to sailboats. I'm talking about any boat. Powerboat clubs have also gotten popular.

With a car you can take it to any number of places, or even have it towed relatively cheaply if it needs work. With a boat your options are much more limited and much more expensive.

Boating clubs have become popular with women (and men) who have no interest in learning how to fix engines. They just want a working boat available whenever they feel like hitting the water. In the U.S. (and probably other places) we've grown up with the idea that ownership is where it's at. But often times we become slaves to our property and possessions.

Our sailing club is hard to get in. It's strictly a web based signup and there are about 4 opportunities each year. There are always far more applicants than open spots. Given that, there is some hope that sailing might see an uptick in popularity if it's possible to remove some of the barriers that keep people away from it.
 
#36 ·
People's household income has been declining for a long time. You have to cut out something and expensive recreational items has to be high on the list for most people.
 
#38 ·
Well it seems to me there are a few common themes:

1) Sailing is declining amongst the younger generations;
2) The cost to be a sole-owner of a sailboat is becoming prohibitively expensive;
3) There appears to be support, albeit not unanamous, for shared-use and/or multiple ownership/participation; and
4) It appears there is general agreement sailing will be for the very rich.

Now the question is: What can Sailboat Dealers, Manufacturers, and the sailing community do about it? Do sailboat manufacturers/dealers want to do anything about it?
 
#39 ·
When I was a kid back in the polyester clad pre-cambrian period of the late 70s, i was the only kid in my elementary school who owned a sailboat. In high school in the big-hair days of the early 80s, i was the only kid with a sailboat. Only a couple of other kids had parents who owned boats and they were the parents who had the income (doctors, lawyers) to afford them, or the time (teachers, professors, ) to enjoy them.

Flash forward three decades, and anecdotally I see as many kids sailing, or at least, the sailing camps have the same size enrolment now as they did in the 70s... and i see them having a bigger interest in keelboats because good old boats are more attainable now then they have ever been. One can work for a summer and have enough to buy a decent old small boat.

but not as many of their parents are sailing.

Moreover, these kids have role models that a previous generation didn't have, in the deckers and watsons and sunderlands who put down their phones and went sailing. It feels like there is a spirit of "can-do" in sailing today that is more prevalent than 20 years ago.
 
#40 ·
Interesting point. You are oobserving same amount of kids today as you saw when you were young. That means as a percentage of the population (and certainly the young populations) there is less particpation than in the 70s.

Changing tacks---Has anyone read the book I mentioned in my origina post?

If so--what do you think of it?
 
#42 · (Edited)
I haven't read that book nor have a read another book specifically about the decline of sailing. ;)

The latter is called "Saving Sailing" by Nick Hayes. Like I said, I've only seen excerpts. According to him, there are young people sailing but they tend to drop out of the sport by the time they reach 25.

One of his theories is that sailing is no longer a family activity. Kids might go to a sailing camp or take lessons but their parents aren't involved.

My own sailing history kind of follows that pattern but I never took lessons or went to camp. I got into sailing because of my father but he died when I was very young. My interest in sailing continued largely due to my older brother but by the time I graduated from college I almost never went sailing and got into windsurfing instead. My brother moved to Hawaii and also became a windsurfer.

Once I had kids I rarely even went windsurfing. It was only about a year ago that I realized I hadn't passed my love of sailing on to my kids and have started to get back into it. Might be too late to get my 13 year old very interested. There are sailing programs for kids nearby but I didn't know about them until recently and my kids are already into other stuff that takes up a lot of their time.

I guess the larger question is "So what?". Even in the late 70's or early 80's when I spent a lot of time sailing, virtually none of my peers did. It pains me to think there might not be any more sailors in my family but there never really were until my father anyway. If my kids find other activities that are fulfilling, easier on their budgets and fit within their lives better, that's really what matters in the end.

What I didn't realize until I started to look into it is that there was a sailing boom in the 60's and 70's.
 
#43 ·
I have owned my own home, debt free, since my early 20s. Never had a bank loan in my life. This would not be possible, had my home been anything but a boat. I am meeting more and more youth who are finally cluing into the same reality. Not owning a boat is not an option, for me or them.
 
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