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  #31  
Old 09-27-2013
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Re: Why buy a brand new $150,000 sailboat?

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Originally Posted by TJC45 View Post
$1000 a month versus $1500, doesn't really matter. The point is from a financial POV it's lost money.

On a recent thread a poster posted that he had purchased a 30 foot sail boat in 1975 for $12500. The new version of that same boat today, accounting for inflation should cost about $50,000, though in actuality it's about 3x that amount. Had that same person instead of buying a sailboat put that money into a run of the mill growth and income mutual fund that account today would be worth over $1,300,000.

Obviously, you can't sail a mutual fund. But there is a real cost to everything we do. The difference between what that 40 year old sailboat is worth today and that 1.3 mill is called lost opportunity cost. it is the end result of the road not taken.
Well, without crunching the numbers I'd say the rate of inflation is way off. Today's 30 footer also has more and more complicated systems.

But to stick with your analogy if the guy who bought that boat in 1975 was 25 he'd be 63 today and would have enjoyed a lifetime on the water. Had he waited he might have a chunk of money - assuming he didn't get screwed in one of the intervening Wall street debacles - but he literally would have missed out on a lifetime's worth of experiences.

What's the dollar value of that?

To me the boat is money well spent.
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  #32  
Old 09-27-2013
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Re: Why buy a brand new $150,000 sailboat?

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Originally Posted by TJC45 View Post
Mark, I know I shouldn't say this but there is something wrong with a rich guy on a boat pointing the finger at the less rich and telling them they need only work harder.

.
Thats the sort of stuff said by someone without ambition.

Sorry it doesnt wash on me.

Of any place in the world one should look at the USA for the spirit. Only 17% of American millionairs had money to begin with.

The rest made it.

By work.
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  #33  
Old 09-27-2013
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Re: Why buy a brand new $150,000 sailboat?

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Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
Well, without crunching the numbers I'd say the rate of inflation is way off. Today's 30 footer also has more and more complicated systems.

But to stick with your analogy if the guy who bought that boat in 1975 was 25 he'd be 63 today and would have enjoyed a lifetime on the water. Had he waited he might have a chunk of money - assuming he didn't get screwed in one of the intervening Wall street debacles - but he literally would have missed out on a lifetime's worth of experiences.

What's the dollar value of that?

To me the boat is money well spent.
So were are on the same page - I totally agree with you, as long as the buyer enjoyed the boat, that was money well spent. Having a large bank account on your last day on the planet is not the measure of a life well spent. In fact it could be the direct opposite. personally, I agree with buying the boat. Believe me when i say, I've spent so much money on "stuff" i'm the last person to judge how others spend their money!

The point is non judgmental. It is only to point out that there is a lost opportunity cost when we chose to buy things like boats.

As for the math, it's dead on. Even with the Wall Street debacles. They've been accounted for.

Last edited by TJC45; 09-27-2013 at 07:17 PM.
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  #34  
Old 09-27-2013
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Re: Why buy a brand new $150,000 sailboat?

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Thats the sort of stuff said by someone without ambition.

Sorry it doesnt wash on me.

Of any place in the world one should look at the USA for the spirit. Only 17% of American millionairs had money to begin with.

The rest made it.

By work.
In this case that sort of stuff statement is made by a person with a seven figure income. Someone who knows what he is talking about.

No ambition? if you knew who i was you would realize how ridiculous that statement is. Do you manage other people's money? because i do. A lot of money! These people actually pay me to do this. let's leave it that I speak from the POV of a money management expert.

We weren't talking about millionaires here. We were talking about, how did you put it- people who should stop spending so much money on drinking and put their noses to the grindstone. And how anybody can afford a boat with just some hard work. That is a falsehood. The average american worker is not a millionaire. If he remains in place on the factory floor no amount of working harder will get him there.

That said, by living small, being careful, and investing smartly he may build a million dollar retirement portfolio by the time he is ready to retire. But that's not what you are talking about.

For that worker to achieve a higher income and net worth they would need to step out from behind the machine press and start their own company or go to school to find a position that pays substantially more than the median wage. Most who start their own companies would fail. It's just the way it is. Those who are successful could possibly achieve financial independence well before normal retirement age. IOW, retire early. Most of both these groups, though wouldn't be in that position. Why? because as their incomes increase it is natural for the lifestyles to become more expensive. The Camry gets traded for a Benz. The 3 bedroom rancher gets upgraded to a 5 bedroom McMansion. 5 days at the shore becomes ten days in Tahiti. And then they buy a $150,000 sailboat and there goes another $1000 a month. And on it goes.

Working to support a high lifestyle the question becomes: Do you own the toys or do they own you?

Last edited by TJC45; 09-28-2013 at 08:49 AM.
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  #35  
Old 09-27-2013
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Re: Why buy a brand new $150,000 sailboat?

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Originally Posted by TJC45 View Post
So were are on the same page - I totally agree with you, as long as the buyer enjoyed the boat, that was money well spent. Having a large bank account on your last day on the planet is not the measure of a life well spent. In fact it could be the direct opposite. personally, I agree with buying the boat. Believe me when i say, I've spent so much money on "stuff" i'm the last person to judge how others spend their money!

The point is non judgmental. It is only to point out that there is a lost opportunity cost when we chose to buy things like boats.

As for the math, it's dead on. Even with the Wall Street debacles. They've been accounted for.
TJ, rate of inflation calculators tend to be weighted heavily towards consumables (milk, bread, etc.). According to those calculators a Honda Accord or Chevy Impala should cost around $15K - but we know that's not the case, the average mid-line sedan is $25-$30K optioned out.

If a 30 footer was around $15K in 1975, it was about 5x the cost of the average well equipped sedan. If a well equipped sedan today is 25K-$30K (without arguing the details) then the average 30 footer should be around $125K-$150K and that is pretty much the ballpark.


But I still think the important question here is the philosophical one - and on that we agree.
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  #36  
Old 09-27-2013
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Re: Why buy a brand new $150,000 sailboat?

Honestly at this job, living modestly, i could afford a 1g a month payment. Imnin direct sales for dish neteork. But i also wouldnneed to do 50 to 60 hours a week. But then who has time to sail?also, slip fees and maint. Just too much imo. Used i can do 5k or less on a little boat, and maybe aford all the slip and maint fees. there will always be poeple with the money to buy new, untill the day there arent enough, companies will make them at a high cost. When there are ONLY poeple like me in the boat world new prices will come down fast.
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Old 09-28-2013
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Re: Why buy a brand new $150,000 sailboat?

I've long subscribed to the attitude that the only things I HAVE to have new are food & underwear. Let the other guy eat that initial huge hit of depreciation.

It's especially true with big ticket items - houses, cars, boats. Hell, I even hunt down sets of good used tires for my minivan - it doesn't require high performance tires so I'd rather spend $150 for a set with 90% life left than $800 for a 100% set.

Now on my wife's Jag however.....
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  #38  
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Re: Why buy a brand new $150,000 sailboat?

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Originally Posted by Thermophile View Post
When there are ONLY poeple like me in the boat world new prices will come down fast.
Not true - there simply won't be any companies left building boats. It's already happening. Back in the 70's there were uncounted small boatbuilders out there. Now? BeneHuntaLina and a rapidly decreasing handful of others. Building pleasure boats is not a very profitable business - how many rich boatbuilders do you know?
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  #39  
Old 09-28-2013
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Re: Why buy a brand new $150,000 sailboat?

A new boat is a good deal if you have the money to buy it and still have plenty left.

A used boat is a much better deal for most of us. I bought my boat, 20 years old, for $80,000. A new one just like it lists for $250,000 to $275,000. That would have been every penny I had.

With the money I didn't spend on the new boat, I spent about $20,000 upgrading mine and then still had all the rest of the money left to make my cruise really fun.

If I had had a million dollars, I would I have bought the new boat. But, I didn't.
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Old 09-28-2013
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Re: Why buy a brand new $150,000 sailboat?

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Thats the sort of stuff said by someone without ambition.

Sorry it doesnt wash on me.

Of any place in the world one should look at the USA for the spirit. Only 17% of American millionairs had money to begin with.

The rest made it.

By work.
....and 15% of them are in Congress

Sorry...couldn't resist

On topic...
If you can afford a brand new boat...rock on with yo bad self and buy one, you can't take it with you
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