Got to Stop being Stupid - Page 8 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree39Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #71  
Old 09-30-2013
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,318
Thanks: 34
Thanked 37 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: Got to Stop being Stupid

Many long distance cruisers use two sails forward of the mast and pole both out, making a wing and wing configuration without a mainsail at all. That makes a lot of sense for a 1000 mile trade winds voyage as long as weather systems are not an issue and steady winds are almost a given. Setting up that kind of gear in changing conditions such as you get on the East Coast is really not possible where wind and heading keep changing. You need more options than just a headsail. I worry about getting a headsail in if the wind pipes up and no main is there to head up enough to get the pressure off the jib/genny. Just letting the sheets fly and headsail luff wildly to try and roll it up is not a great situation. I think for normal coastal sailing that the majority of the time one should follow the old rule of sailing 101: main up first, down last.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #72  
Old 09-30-2013
Sal Paradise's Avatar
Captain Obvious
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 636
Thanks: 13
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Sal Paradise is on a distinguished road
Re: Got to Stop being Stupid

Hey Harborless.

I use this map frequently.

NOAASurfaceMap

I just check it during the week, measure it against sailflow and other wind prediction sites. You can see I am in a misery of calm. Good weather to hike or ride my motorcycle. Anything but sail.


Others will probably have better stuff, but i use this and its free. Gives you some idea whats happening and you combine with other info to get an overall picture.
__________________
Warning: All comments by this poster are likey to be tongue in cheek and should be read as such unless noted otherwise.

Last edited by Sal Paradise; 09-30-2013 at 10:24 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #73  
Old 09-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,016
Thanks: 0
Thanked 78 Times in 70 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Got to Stop being Stupid

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Many long distance cruisers use two sails forward of the mast and pole both out, making a wing and wing configuration without a mainsail at all. That makes a lot of sense for a 1000 mile trade winds voyage as long as weather systems are not an issue and steady winds are almost a given. Setting up that kind of gear in changing conditions such as you get on the East Coast is really not possible where wind and heading keep changing. You need more options than just a headsail. I worry about getting a headsail in if the wind pipes up and no main is there to head up enough to get the pressure off the jib/genny. Just letting the sheets fly and headsail luff wildly to try and roll it up is not a great situation. I think for normal coastal sailing that the majority of the time one should follow the old rule of sailing 101: main up first, down last.
Well, I'm not sure what part of the East coast your talking about, where "wind and heading keep changing"... :-)

The pic I posted was taken during a sail out around Canaveral on a shot from Mayport to Palm Beach behind the passage of a strong front at the end of January... (the overnight temps in Palm Beach that night dipped below freezing)

The breeze never wavered much from the NNW throughout the trip, and my course only changed once upon passing Canaveral, perhaps a 25 degree change to starboard which was probably closely matched by the breeze moving more to the N once south of the Cape...

I can't imagine what other "options" would have served me better than my headsails after the passage of the front, and the wind started blowing @ 30+... My main would have had my vane struggling, and as I was singlehanded, reducing the threat of an accidental jibe was paramount for me... I've rigged my running backs so that they clear the boom and double-reefed main, so I can leave both of them on when double-reefed, but on many boats that's not the case, and an accidental jibe with the backstay on and unattended can be disastrous...

If you're not able to furl a headsail sailing downwind without using the blanketing effect of the main, something is wrong... Most likely, you've gotten caught with your pants down, so to speak, and have waited too long to furl it in conjunction with the building wind strength, to begin with...

Here's another example of the difficulty of sailing deep before the wind with a lot of main up... This is my friend Glenn at the helm of a Trintella 50 we were running to the islands, taken in the Stream off Hatteras... The Trintella has a massive main, and a relatively small self-tacking jib which is pretty ineffective DDW... We were rigged for speed, trying to get across the Stream before nightfall and the breeze began to move to the N-NE, so were overpowered with as much main up as we dared for the time being...

The Trintella has deeply swept-back spreaders, which can be a huge liability in such conditions... Steering that boat in those conditions took a lot of effort, 2 hours at the wheel was a real workout, and the autopilot wouldn't come close to handling the conditions consistently, or averting round-ups or screaming broaches... Had I been singlehanding or having to rely on self-steering alone, there really would have been no alternative to run under headsail alone, or so deeply reef the main that the boat would be for all intents and purposes, running under bare poles...



Last edited by JonEisberg; 09-30-2013 at 11:11 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #74  
Old 09-30-2013
T37Chef's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,954
Thanks: 16
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 8
T37Chef will become famous soon enough
Re: Got to Stop being Stupid

I'm more curious about that bird in your photo Jon Almost looks Photoshoped
__________________
Shawn
Tartan 37 - S/V Windgeist
Sailing the Chesapeake Bay


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Photo by Joe McCary
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #75  
Old 09-30-2013
Harborless's Avatar
Blue Horizons
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 1,049
Thanks: 4
Thanked 19 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Harborless is on a distinguished road
Re: Got to Stop being Stupid

I think its hard to say how sails up would have affected me that day out. I mean I understand the boat is designed for sailing. Without sails up the boat didnt know its ass from its elbow once the mast got to swining around, i was basically like a pendulum. However I still think with my 110 jib ida been in trouble with my headings.
Now that I have a storm jib I would definently go out with reefed main and storm hanked if I ever met the same conditions and would not worry about being overppowered by the wind.
feels great to have a storm jib to go down to now! Yay for derelicts!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #76  
Old 09-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,016
Thanks: 0
Thanked 78 Times in 70 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Got to Stop being Stupid

Quote:
Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post
I'm more curious about that bird in your photo Jon Almost looks Photoshoped
Well, I don't do Photoshop - but if I did, I would have placed it a bit further off to the right of the frame :-)
T37Chef likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #77  
Old 09-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,016
Thanks: 0
Thanked 78 Times in 70 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Got to Stop being Stupid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harborless View Post
feels great to have a storm jib to go down to now! Yay for derelicts!
Hmmm, if you did indeed score that jib off a true derelict, you might want to think about washing it, first...

Just sayin'... :-)


Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #78  
Old 09-30-2013
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,318
Thanks: 34
Thanked 37 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: Got to Stop being Stupid

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Well, I'm not sure what part of the East coast your talking about, where "wind and heading keep changing"... :-)

The pic I posted was taken during a sail out around Canaveral on a shot from Mayport to Palm Beach behind the passage of a strong front at the end of January... (the overnight temps in Palm Beach that night dipped below freezing)

The breeze never wavered much from the NNW throughout the trip, and my course only changed once upon passing Canaveral, perhaps a 25 degree change to starboard which was probably closely matched by the breeze moving more to the N once south of the Cape...

I can't imagine what other "options" would have served me better than my headsails after the passage of the front, and the wind started blowing @ 30+... My main would have had my vane struggling, and as I was singlehanded, reducing the threat of an accidental jibe was paramount for me... I've rigged my running backs so that they clear the boom and double-reefed main, so I can leave both of them on when double-reefed, but on many boats that's not the case, and an accidental jibe with the backstay on and unattended can be disastrous...

If you're not able to furl a headsail sailing downwind without using the blanketing effect of the main, something is wrong... Most likely, you've gotten caught with your pants down, so to speak, and have waited too long to furl it in conjunction with the building wind strength, to begin with...

Here's another example of the difficulty of sailing deep before the wind with a lot of main up... This is my friend Glenn at the helm of a Trintella 50 we were running to the islands, taken in the Stream off Hatteras... The Trintella has a massive main, and a relatively small self-tacking jib which is pretty ineffective DDW... We were rigged for speed, trying to get across the Stream before nightfall and the breeze began to move to the N-NE, so were overpowered with as much main up as we dared for the time being...

The Trintella has deeply swept-back spreaders, which can be a huge liability in such conditions... Steering that boat in those conditions took a lot of effort, 2 hours at the wheel was a real workout, and the autopilot wouldn't come close to handling the conditions consistently, or averting round-ups or screaming broaches... Had I been singlehanding or having to rely on self-steering alone, there really would have been no alternative to run under headsail alone, or so deeply reef the main that the boat would be for all intents and purposes, running under bare poles...


Yes, you were on a long run and far enough out where the wind wasn't veering around from land effects. I meant inshore such as the op was describing, where you need to change headings and wind can funnel around all kinds of things.
Would like to see how you placed your runners in order to allow use of the boom. Mine will get hit in a jibe so I wouldn't dare use the main on the boom with the runners on. The boom will be tied down any time I decide to use storm sails. I have a trysail (loose-footed) which would be up in any condition where I had to set the storm jib.
As far as roller furling goes, most of them need to be almost unstressed to work right. With luff sag caused by tension on the sail, you're trying to roll up along a curved surface as well as against any pull at right angles to the luff. I can roll in easily only when damn near close to luffing.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is this a Stupid Thought? Harborless Diesel 6 05-06-2012 02:56 PM
Stupid question... or not? samurai6 Learning to Sail 6 09-05-2009 07:28 PM
Stupid radio, stupid question. (stupid owner?) jjns Gear & Maintenance 8 06-22-2009 06:08 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:47 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012